6 ms·

An alternative view is: "If you're already successful, everything you could learn at a college you can also learn out of college (see: the internet)".

by Ilverin 10y ago

azinman2 10y ago
That would be an incorrect view. First, few are so motivated that they'd devote years to self-learning at the same scale as university provide. Next, it would be difficult to put together a cohesive curriculum for yourself because you don't know what you don't know. Relatedly, understanding the arc/trajectory to pick it difficult, and to do it all alone with no guidance means there's no one qualified that you can ask questions from on the daily. It also ignores the value of mentorship, learning from your peers, and being inspired and pushed by your environment. It also is isolating and does not give you any social benefits, business or personal networks.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Everything you say is true, but you can still do it if you're that way inclined. As long as you don't mind poverty and social exile :-) Career-wise this has been a terrible life choice for me and I advise people to go to college for precisely the same reason you do. On the other hand career and material gain are only one aspect of life, I can't say with conviction that I really wish I'd done anything differently.
- AJ007 10y ago
  If you aren't personally motivated devote years of self-learning to complex and deep topics, you should stay in school and get a Phd?
- davidivadavid 10y ago
  You can be motivated without going to school. It would take seconds to find curricula from major universities. You can find most textbooks for free on Libgen. You can talk to people over the internet and find better mentors than people you'd find in your local university. It's not isolating any more than going to the university and staying in your dorm reading textbooks is. So, yeah. It seems like a completely correct view. My guess is that it will only become more and more correct with time, as the internet provides all the building blocks that colleges provide currently. The knowledge is already there. Credentials are there for some professions (Github > sheepskin). Networking is probably the hardest part, but hardly sounds undoable.
  - azinman2 10y ago
    Pirating textbooks can be done in college or not in college, just as you can buy textbooks in college or not. But if you're not in college, then you most likely won't know what to buy, and certainly won't have anyone to explain it all to you in depth. It is difficult for most to self-motivate 4+ years worth of self-study in isolation. Few would do that on their own. Further, getting a random stranger to mentor you for any real period of time is a difficult proposition without anything in return. Typically this only happens in extreme cases such as if you are a superstar and "worth their time." If all you do is stay in your dorm and never venture out, then you're not getting much out of what the university offers, so that's not particularly relevant. You can also just not attend any classes either but that's not much of a comparison. You're also ignoring majorly important components such as opportunistic learning from peers, being motivated by your environment, and having others guide you through subject matter when you don't know what you don't know. The internet cannot replace any of that as effectively.
    - davidivadavid 10y ago
      Guess what, people in college don't know either what textbooks you should buy. Maybe they're the teacher's favorite textbook, or a textbook the teacher wrote him/herself. Will that be the best textbook for you? Maybe. Maybe not. Regardless, as mentioned before, if you think colleges do choose the best textbooks, you can find what textbooks they're using very easily. My experience is that the best thing you can do is sample many textbooks and keep the ones you like best and are most likely to learn from. That few people are willing to self-motivate for 4 years doesn't invalidate the possibility of doing it. I would also question the necessity to study for 4 years to learn most subjects. The point about staying in your dorm is that if you're studying (i.e. not going out with your friends), it doesn't matter whether you're doing it at home or in a college dorm. You can socialize in other ways. Serendipitous learning happens outside of colleges too. Etc. Etc. Having been through college, and having learned a lot of things on my own, the only thing I think (some) colleges provide is just sheepskin prestige. If you want to work for a company that screens based on what university you went to, don't make the mistake of skipping that part. Learning-wise? I don't think it makes much of a difference.
erikpukinskis 10y ago
People often focus too much on what is technically possible, and not enough on what's likely, given social and psychological realities. "Possible" isn't really possible if it requires an unusual psychology to work.
iaw 10y ago
In my mind it's a question of what the purpose of college is, implicitly there's two sides to the argument: One enters college to better themselves and for the purpose of a collaborative education. One enters college to improve their ability to interact with the world in a meaningful fashion. For those in the former camp, college is a means to an end. Those in the latter value the aspects of a collegial environment that you can't get elsewhere when learning. I find myself in both camps, I'd love to return for a PhD but it's such an economically poor decision that I don't.
melling 10y ago
Yeah, that was Bill Gates' answer. He takes "classes" all the time. @4:35 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-10-17/the-david-rubenstein-show-bill-gates http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-10-17/the-david-ru...

An alternative view is: "If you're already successful, everything you could learn at a college you can also learn out of college (see: the internet)".

by Ilverin 10y ago

An alternative view is: "If you're already successful, everything you could learn at a college you can also learn out of college (see: the internet)".

azinman2 10y ago

That would be an incorrect view. First, few are so motivated that they'd devote years to self-learning at the same scale as university provide. Next, it would be difficult to put together a cohesive curriculum for yourself because you don't know what you don't know. Relatedly, understanding the arc/trajectory to pick it difficult, and to do it all alone with no guidance means there's no one qualified that you can ask questions from on the daily. It also ignores the value of mentorship, learning from your peers, and being inspired and pushed by your environment. It also is isolating and does not give you any social benefits, business or personal networks.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
anigbrowl 10y ago
Everything you say is true, but you can still do it if you're that way inclined. As long as you don't mind poverty and social exile :-) Career-wise this has been a terrible life choice for me and I advise people to go to college for precisely the same reason you do. On the other hand career and material gain are only one aspect of life, I can't say with conviction that I really wish I'd done anything differently.
AJ007 10y ago
If you aren't personally motivated devote years of self-learning to complex and deep topics, you should stay in school and get a Phd?
davidivadavid 10y ago
You can be motivated without going to school. It would take seconds to find curricula from major universities. You can find most textbooks for free on Libgen. You can talk to people over the internet and find better mentors than people you'd find in your local university. It's not isolating any more than going to the university and staying in your dorm reading textbooks is. So, yeah. It seems like a completely correct view. My guess is that it will only become more and more correct with time, as the internet provides all the building blocks that colleges provide currently. The knowledge is already there. Credentials are there for some professions (Github > sheepskin). Networking is probably the hardest part, but hardly sounds undoable.
- azinman2 10y ago
  Pirating textbooks can be done in college or not in college, just as you can buy textbooks in college or not. But if you're not in college, then you most likely won't know what to buy, and certainly won't have anyone to explain it all to you in depth. It is difficult for most to self-motivate 4+ years worth of self-study in isolation. Few would do that on their own. Further, getting a random stranger to mentor you for any real period of time is a difficult proposition without anything in return. Typically this only happens in extreme cases such as if you are a superstar and "worth their time." If all you do is stay in your dorm and never venture out, then you're not getting much out of what the university offers, so that's not particularly relevant. You can also just not attend any classes either but that's not much of a comparison. You're also ignoring majorly important components such as opportunistic learning from peers, being motivated by your environment, and having others guide you through subject matter when you don't know what you don't know. The internet cannot replace any of that as effectively.
  - davidivadavid 10y ago
    Guess what, people in college don't know either what textbooks you should buy. Maybe they're the teacher's favorite textbook, or a textbook the teacher wrote him/herself. Will that be the best textbook for you? Maybe. Maybe not. Regardless, as mentioned before, if you think colleges do choose the best textbooks, you can find what textbooks they're using very easily. My experience is that the best thing you can do is sample many textbooks and keep the ones you like best and are most likely to learn from. That few people are willing to self-motivate for 4 years doesn't invalidate the possibility of doing it. I would also question the necessity to study for 4 years to learn most subjects. The point about staying in your dorm is that if you're studying (i.e. not going out with your friends), it doesn't matter whether you're doing it at home or in a college dorm. You can socialize in other ways. Serendipitous learning happens outside of colleges too. Etc. Etc. Having been through college, and having learned a lot of things on my own, the only thing I think (some) colleges provide is just sheepskin prestige. If you want to work for a company that screens based on what university you went to, don't make the mistake of skipping that part. Learning-wise? I don't think it makes much of a difference.

erikpukinskis 10y ago

People often focus too much on what is technically possible, and not enough on what's likely, given social and psychological realities. "Possible" isn't really possible if it requires an unusual psychology to work.

iaw 10y ago

In my mind it's a question of what the purpose of college is, implicitly there's two sides to the argument: One enters college to better themselves and for the purpose of a collaborative education. One enters college to improve their ability to interact with the world in a meaningful fashion. For those in the former camp, college is a means to an end. Those in the latter value the aspects of a collegial environment that you can't get elsewhere when learning. I find myself in both camps, I'd love to return for a PhD but it's such an economically poor decision that I don't.

melling 10y ago

Yeah, that was Bill Gates' answer. He takes "classes" all the time. @4:35 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-10-17/the-david-rubenstein-show-bill-gates http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-10-17/the-david-ru...