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I'm all for scientists getting a bit more recognition, though the timing of this with the ongoing court case and the very brief mention of Charpentier and Doudn

I'm all for scientists getting a bit more recognition, though the timing of this with the ongoing court case and the very brief mention of Charpentier and Doudna's work makes it seem a bit suspect.

jhbadger 10y ago
And even if the law suit ends up favorably for him, it isn't as if he thought up the idea of using CRISPR-Cas for gene editing -- he was just (arguably) the first to get it to work in human cells. It's an impressive achievement, but so is winning a marathon -- somebody has to be the first to cross the finish line. To me at least, a "groundbreaking" scientist is somebody who comes up with something nobody else was even thinking about.
- ChrisLomont 10y ago
  >who comes up with something nobody else was even thinking about All the "groundbreaking" things I can think of, when I've looked into them, have always had many people working on it, but we rarely know that as a society. Relativity, quantum mech, lasers, transistors, superconductors, TV, radio, flight, engines galore.... Do you know of any groundbreaking things done "nobody else was even thinking about" it?
  - jhbadger 10y ago
    Well, a lot of the examples you give deal with technological development, which is different from science as such. For example, as soon as radio was invented, it was obvious that transmitting pictures was the next thing to do, and lots of people went to work on trying to do that. And powered flight was an obvious extension of work on gliders and was likewise very competitive (to the point that some Europeans doubt the Wright brothers' priority to this day). But groundbreaking science is different. There the next step isn't obvious. While Einstein certainly benefited from the work of previous scientists like Poincaré and Lorentz, it wasn't as if there was a "race" to discover relativity like there was for TV (or CRISPR-Cas in human cells).
    - ChrisLomont 10y ago
      >it wasn't as if there was a "race" to discover relativity Yes, there was. They didn't call it relativity, which is a later name, but probably dozens to hundreds of scientists were working on exactly what Einstein is credited for. Hilbert was close (published equivalent first?), Poincare was working on it (which is why the symmetries of special relativity are Poincare symmetries), Lorenz was working on it (which is why special relativity focuses on Lorenz transforms) , and many, many people were going to do it within a year or less if Einstein did not do it. There were so many people doing the same thing that there is an entire field devoted to sorting relativity priority out. Einstein is simply the one most people associate with it. See [1] for a huge list of people (and likely not all) that were on the same track at the same time. And this is also exactly my point. Many things people think were isolated inventions, because history loses most of those who were going to do it at the same time (and often did do it sooner, but just lost credit). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_priority_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_priority_dispute

I'm all for scientists getting a bit more recognition, though the timing of this with the ongoing court case and the very brief mention of Charpentier and Doudna's work makes it seem a bit suspect.

jhbadger 10y ago

And even if the law suit ends up favorably for him, it isn't as if he thought up the idea of using CRISPR-Cas for gene editing -- he was just (arguably) the first to get it to work in human cells. It's an impressive achievement, but so is winning a marathon -- somebody has to be the first to cross the finish line. To me at least, a "groundbreaking" scientist is somebody who comes up with something nobody else was even thinking about.

ChrisLomont 10y ago
>who comes up with something nobody else was even thinking about All the "groundbreaking" things I can think of, when I've looked into them, have always had many people working on it, but we rarely know that as a society. Relativity, quantum mech, lasers, transistors, superconductors, TV, radio, flight, engines galore.... Do you know of any groundbreaking things done "nobody else was even thinking about" it?
- jhbadger 10y ago
  Well, a lot of the examples you give deal with technological development, which is different from science as such. For example, as soon as radio was invented, it was obvious that transmitting pictures was the next thing to do, and lots of people went to work on trying to do that. And powered flight was an obvious extension of work on gliders and was likewise very competitive (to the point that some Europeans doubt the Wright brothers' priority to this day). But groundbreaking science is different. There the next step isn't obvious. While Einstein certainly benefited from the work of previous scientists like Poincaré and Lorentz, it wasn't as if there was a "race" to discover relativity like there was for TV (or CRISPR-Cas in human cells).
  - ChrisLomont 10y ago
    >it wasn't as if there was a "race" to discover relativity Yes, there was. They didn't call it relativity, which is a later name, but probably dozens to hundreds of scientists were working on exactly what Einstein is credited for. Hilbert was close (published equivalent first?), Poincare was working on it (which is why the symmetries of special relativity are Poincare symmetries), Lorenz was working on it (which is why special relativity focuses on Lorenz transforms) , and many, many people were going to do it within a year or less if Einstein did not do it. There were so many people doing the same thing that there is an entire field devoted to sorting relativity priority out. Einstein is simply the one most people associate with it. See [1] for a huge list of people (and likely not all) that were on the same track at the same time. And this is also exactly my point. Many things people think were isolated inventions, because history loses most of those who were going to do it at the same time (and often did do it sooner, but just lost credit). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_priority_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_priority_dispute