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I understand that people not being able to look you in the eye makes you feel extremely disrespected. But I don't think it helps anyone for you to jump from th

by waqf 10y ago

I understand that people not being able to look you in the eye makes you feel extremely disrespected. But I don't think it helps anyone for you to jump from there to assuming that what's going on inside their head is "[I don't] respect [this person] as a human being". To be clear, I think other things you mention, like not getting out of your way, are evidence of that. But eye contact? Probably anxiety from an unfamiliar social situation.

untog 10y ago
> But eye contact? Probably anxiety from an unfamiliar social situation. I'd hesitate to tell the OP they are wrong when they are the ones that experienced this situation and not you. If they noticed this being a lot more common when they were in the chair than when they were out of it, that implies that the change is in them, not in the other party's base level of social anxiety. And if they are more socially anxious around people in chairs than those who are not, that is absolutely a problem to be addressed, not to be waved away as "oh, social anxiety is what it is".
- waqf 10y ago
  > If they noticed this being a lot more common when they were in the chair than when they were out of it, that implies that the change is in them, not in the other party's base level of social anxiety. And if they are more socially anxious around people in chairs than those who are not, that is absolutely a problem to be addressed, not to be waved away as "oh, social anxiety is what it is". I agree with both of these statements. I took care to word my comment not to imply otherwise, but apologies if I was still unclear.
  - cr0sh 10y ago
    One thing to realize, is that these people - all of us - were at an event called Abilities Expo: For those people (not all of them, mind you, but way more than I expected) to have social anxiety around those in chairs really says something - the mix of people at that event included people from all walks of life - from those in chairs, and their families, to salespeople presenting and hawking all manner of products (I was floored at what it cost to specially customize automobiles for those in chairs to drive), to caregivers and others. These are all people who -should- be comfortable (and accommodating) around those with less mobility, so the lack of eye contact was surprising. I do apologize and agree, though, that my conclusion as to what they might be thinking is unfounded; I obviously can't know what they were really thinking or why.
lostcolony 10y ago
'But I don't think it helps anyone for you to jump from there to assuming that what's going on inside their head is "[I don't] respect [this person] as a human being".' Probably true. However, that's also applicable to most other forms of discrimination. A police officer responding with greater force to a black person than they would to white person is probably not thinking "I don't respect this person as a human being", but nevertheless, their actions and thought processes are different, and are legitimately -not- treating the person as, well, a full person, but as some sort of 'other' that does not demand the same respect, the same courtesy, etc. Eye contact is part of that; if they offer eye contact to able bodied people, the fact that they don't to the disabled, irrespective of the explicit thoughts going through their head, is indicative of them viewing the disabled as an 'other' that does not necessitate that same courtesy.
- waqf 10y ago
  I don't know about you, but I am certainly uncomfortable (in a way that would probably manifest with loss of eye contact, fidgeting, closed/protective body language etc.) standing up while talking to someone who is sitting down (at least at chair height, probably not on a bar stool). Doesn't matter if it's a stranger or my best friend, though a stranger (especially one with stereotype threat) would presumably take more offense.
derekp7 10y ago
I would go a bit further, and say it is from trying not to be rude. For example, it is rude to stare, and if you encounter someone who has a disability, you want to counter the natural instinct to stare by over-compensating and not looking. Also, if you look at someone in a wheelchair in the eye, you are also looking down at them, which seems rude. But if you kneel down so you are at eye level, you are now patronizing them. So what is the correct behavior, especially if you are trying hard to be polite but it is conveying the opposite effect?
- cr0sh 10y ago
  > So what is the correct behavior, especially if you are trying hard to be polite but it is conveying the opposite effect? How would you approach a conversation or a polite word with someone who was significantly shorter than you (but still an adult)?
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  I agree that a good part of it is trying not to stare and things like that. The answer is somewhere in betweeen. Don't stare too long, much like you would try not to stare too long at a beautiful person. If you make eye contact, say hi. Don't kneel down, but instead make eye contact as you speak. Just like you would with someone quite a bit shorter than you - or the way you'd look up to a tall person when speaking. If the person seems to be struggling to reach something, simply ask if they'd like some help.

by waqf 10y ago

untog 10y ago

> But eye contact? Probably anxiety from an unfamiliar social situation. I'd hesitate to tell the OP they are wrong when they are the ones that experienced this situation and not you. If they noticed this being a lot more common when they were in the chair than when they were out of it, that implies that the change is in them, not in the other party's base level of social anxiety. And if they are more socially anxious around people in chairs than those who are not, that is absolutely a problem to be addressed, not to be waved away as "oh, social anxiety is what it is".

waqf 10y ago
> If they noticed this being a lot more common when they were in the chair than when they were out of it, that implies that the change is in them, not in the other party's base level of social anxiety. And if they are more socially anxious around people in chairs than those who are not, that is absolutely a problem to be addressed, not to be waved away as "oh, social anxiety is what it is". I agree with both of these statements. I took care to word my comment not to imply otherwise, but apologies if I was still unclear.
- cr0sh 10y ago
  One thing to realize, is that these people - all of us - were at an event called Abilities Expo: For those people (not all of them, mind you, but way more than I expected) to have social anxiety around those in chairs really says something - the mix of people at that event included people from all walks of life - from those in chairs, and their families, to salespeople presenting and hawking all manner of products (I was floored at what it cost to specially customize automobiles for those in chairs to drive), to caregivers and others. These are all people who -should- be comfortable (and accommodating) around those with less mobility, so the lack of eye contact was surprising. I do apologize and agree, though, that my conclusion as to what they might be thinking is unfounded; I obviously can't know what they were really thinking or why.

lostcolony 10y ago

'But I don't think it helps anyone for you to jump from there to assuming that what's going on inside their head is "[I don't] respect [this person] as a human being".' Probably true. However, that's also applicable to most other forms of discrimination. A police officer responding with greater force to a black person than they would to white person is probably not thinking "I don't respect this person as a human being", but nevertheless, their actions and thought processes are different, and are legitimately -not- treating the person as, well, a full person, but as some sort of 'other' that does not demand the same respect, the same courtesy, etc. Eye contact is part of that; if they offer eye contact to able bodied people, the fact that they don't to the disabled, irrespective of the explicit thoughts going through their head, is indicative of them viewing the disabled as an 'other' that does not necessitate that same courtesy.

waqf 10y ago
I don't know about you, but I am certainly uncomfortable (in a way that would probably manifest with loss of eye contact, fidgeting, closed/protective body language etc.) standing up while talking to someone who is sitting down (at least at chair height, probably not on a bar stool). Doesn't matter if it's a stranger or my best friend, though a stranger (especially one with stereotype threat) would presumably take more offense.

derekp7 10y ago

I would go a bit further, and say it is from trying not to be rude. For example, it is rude to stare, and if you encounter someone who has a disability, you want to counter the natural instinct to stare by over-compensating and not looking. Also, if you look at someone in a wheelchair in the eye, you are also looking down at them, which seems rude. But if you kneel down so you are at eye level, you are now patronizing them. So what is the correct behavior, especially if you are trying hard to be polite but it is conveying the opposite effect?

cr0sh 10y ago
> So what is the correct behavior, especially if you are trying hard to be polite but it is conveying the opposite effect? How would you approach a conversation or a polite word with someone who was significantly shorter than you (but still an adult)?
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
I agree that a good part of it is trying not to stare and things like that. The answer is somewhere in betweeen. Don't stare too long, much like you would try not to stare too long at a beautiful person. If you make eye contact, say hi. Don't kneel down, but instead make eye contact as you speak. Just like you would with someone quite a bit shorter than you - or the way you'd look up to a tall person when speaking. If the person seems to be struggling to reach something, simply ask if they'd like some help.