6 ms·

Dead, finally? ..Ow, damn, false alarm! Just another vile article :(

mixedCase 10y ago
You're being downvoted, but really, the only saving grace in Java is the occasionally useful tooling that can't be used in the other two actually good JVM languages: Kotlin and Scala. And right now the only one I can think of is j2objc. Java should absolutely die.
- dkersten 10y ago
  ...in the other two actually good JVM languages: Kotlin and Scala As a Clojure programmer, I take exception to this statement. There's more than just two "actually good" JVM languages. (I personally don't like the two you mentioned that much, but its because I have a distaste for OO these days, not because they're bad languages) The JVM is a solid piece of tech and the Java ecosystem is strong, but Java the language is not something I want to have to use again, if I can help it. There are many better languages out there nowadays!
- dschuetz 10y ago
  Isn't this upvote-downvote thing somehow linked to confirmation bias? I'm getting downvoted for having issued an opinion which opposes that of the others? This sounds so horribly wrong to me...
  - odabaxok 10y ago
    It is because you do not comment according to the guidelines, which encourage people to start conversation with reasoning etc. Points done bad in your comments: Avoid gratuitous negativity. When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them. Please resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
    - unclebucknasty 10y ago
      >It is because you do not comment according to the guidelines, which encourage people to start conversation with reasoning Not strictly. The guidelines encourage people to start conversation with reasoning, but also encourage people to downvote for disagreeing. So, there's some dissonance in there as it says, effectively: "make well-reasoned arguments with which everyone can agree."
      - odabaxok 10y ago
        We are going OT here, but one last comment in this thread to clarify what I meant. Putting a comment saying just "Just another vile article", without any thoughts about why it is vile, is just completely against the guidelines (from the points mentioned in my previous comment). Even if you agree with its content or not. Also, I do not believe the guidelines encourage people to down-vote for disagreeing (or at-least from my understanding). It is just in our nature and the consequence of the fact, that there is a down-vote button. (I have never tried it, still under 500 karma.. :) )
        unclebucknasty 10y ago
        >Putting a comment saying just "Just another vile article", without any thoughts about why it is vile I agree that it doesn't add to the discussion, which might be a good reason for downvoting (i.e. as a form of "quality control"). OTOH, if you happen to agree with the statement, then the ethos is that it's cool to upvote it on that basis alone. Yet, it still adds no more to the discussion. My overall point is that agreement/disagreement as a basis for surfacing (or submerging) people's comments/ideas is a poor choice in either direction, if it's stimulating, challenging discussion we want. >I have never tried it, still under 500 karma.. Meh. It's overrated. Can't even remember the last time I downvoted a comment (as you might've guessed) :)
      - rootlocus 10y ago
        The guidelines aren't there to help you get upvotes. Moreover, it says nothing about how / why to downvote, much less encourage people to do so. The fact that it's ok to downvote when disagreeing is something that pg once wrote in a comment (don't have the link).
  - rootlocus 10y ago
    > I'm getting downvoted for having issued an opinion which opposes that of the others? This sounds so horribly wrong to me... You haven't issued an opinion. Moreover, what people mean with their downvotes is subjective. You're not on trial, and your karma doesn't affect your life in any way, so I don't see how this is "so horribly wrong".
- lmm 10y ago
  I think Kotlin makes a newer version of the same mistakes Java made. Let's see how it looks in 5 years' time. (I'd say Ceylon is the actually good JVM language)

You're being downvoted, but really, the only saving grace in Java is the occasionally useful tooling that can't be used in the other two actually good JVM languages: Kotlin and Scala. And right now the only one I can think of is j2objc. Java should absolutely die.

dkersten 10y ago
...in the other two actually good JVM languages: Kotlin and Scala As a Clojure programmer, I take exception to this statement. There's more than just two "actually good" JVM languages. (I personally don't like the two you mentioned that much, but its because I have a distaste for OO these days, not because they're bad languages) The JVM is a solid piece of tech and the Java ecosystem is strong, but Java the language is not something I want to have to use again, if I can help it. There are many better languages out there nowadays!
dschuetz 10y ago
Isn't this upvote-downvote thing somehow linked to confirmation bias? I'm getting downvoted for having issued an opinion which opposes that of the others? This sounds so horribly wrong to me...
- odabaxok 10y ago
  It is because you do not comment according to the guidelines, which encourage people to start conversation with reasoning etc. Points done bad in your comments: Avoid gratuitous negativity. When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them. Please resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
  - unclebucknasty 10y ago
    >It is because you do not comment according to the guidelines, which encourage people to start conversation with reasoning Not strictly. The guidelines encourage people to start conversation with reasoning, but also encourage people to downvote for disagreeing. So, there's some dissonance in there as it says, effectively: "make well-reasoned arguments with which everyone can agree."
    - odabaxok 10y ago
      We are going OT here, but one last comment in this thread to clarify what I meant. Putting a comment saying just "Just another vile article", without any thoughts about why it is vile, is just completely against the guidelines (from the points mentioned in my previous comment). Even if you agree with its content or not. Also, I do not believe the guidelines encourage people to down-vote for disagreeing (or at-least from my understanding). It is just in our nature and the consequence of the fact, that there is a down-vote button. (I have never tried it, still under 500 karma.. :) )
      - unclebucknasty 10y ago
        >Putting a comment saying just "Just another vile article", without any thoughts about why it is vile I agree that it doesn't add to the discussion, which might be a good reason for downvoting (i.e. as a form of "quality control"). OTOH, if you happen to agree with the statement, then the ethos is that it's cool to upvote it on that basis alone. Yet, it still adds no more to the discussion. My overall point is that agreement/disagreement as a basis for surfacing (or submerging) people's comments/ideas is a poor choice in either direction, if it's stimulating, challenging discussion we want. >I have never tried it, still under 500 karma.. Meh. It's overrated. Can't even remember the last time I downvoted a comment (as you might've guessed) :)
    - rootlocus 10y ago
      The guidelines aren't there to help you get upvotes. Moreover, it says nothing about how / why to downvote, much less encourage people to do so. The fact that it's ok to downvote when disagreeing is something that pg once wrote in a comment (don't have the link).
- rootlocus 10y ago
  > I'm getting downvoted for having issued an opinion which opposes that of the others? This sounds so horribly wrong to me... You haven't issued an opinion. Moreover, what people mean with their downvotes is subjective. You're not on trial, and your karma doesn't affect your life in any way, so I don't see how this is "so horribly wrong".
lmm 10y ago
I think Kotlin makes a newer version of the same mistakes Java made. Let's see how it looks in 5 years' time. (I'd say Ceylon is the actually good JVM language)