6 ms·

There's a tumblr for that! They call it "confirm shaming". http://confirmshaming.tumblr.com/ http://confirmshaming.tumblr.com/ And yeah, it's UX cancer.

cm2187 10y ago
And even Apple is doing it. You you want to update your iphone now or tonight?
- artursapek 10y ago
  Software updates are the rare case where I can forgive it. It's annoying to have clients actively resisting updates, especially security updates.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    If it was only about the security update. But in the case of iOS it is not. It's is the opportunity to start the nagging all over again. Please start using iCloud. Let's use Apple Pay now. Let's use Apple Music. On every single minor "security" update...
    - bigtunacan 10y ago
      Even worse; let's break backwards compatibility with your paid software so that you have to purchase an upgrade license... If you've had a Mac long enough and you run paid software you know what I'm talking about. :(
      - thirdsun 10y ago
        Considering the wide availability of beta OS updates, I'd say that's on the developers of said software. Sure, as someone who works in audio and has to deal with a range of software instruments/effects and audio interface drivers, I know exactly what you're talking about and I have little understanding for developers expensive software/hardware that don't test and fix their products before OS releases.
        Silhouette 10y ago
        Considering the wide availability of beta OS updates, I'd say that's on the developers of said software. Why? If the developers produced a product that works and sold it to a user at a fair price, why on earth should those developers then have some sort of indefinite responsibility for producing updates because other people chose to break compatibility? There is a reason we have standards and there is a reason it's important for system software in particular to define and support standard interfaces. In fact, that is arguably the primary function of an operating system: to provide a stable platform on which other software can run. The fact that some of the main OS providers no longer seem to recognise this and instead consider instability and backward-incompatibility to be strategic assets makes me genuinely afraid for the near future of our industry. If I want to do something as simple as buying a laptop for one of my small businesses tomorrow, so someone can get on with useful work and will be able to continue doing so for a long time, there are currently no good options available.
        bigtunacan 10y ago
        I certainly disagree on this point. Take the case of a small software company that ends up not being all that successful. I purchase a license for said software; it is useful for me, but the company goes out of business since they are unprofitable. Now Apple breaks backwards compatibility with this software when I upgrade. Even in the case of the software maker still being in business, should they have to provide me free upgrades for life? If they do that then they have diminishing profits with every upgrade. On the flip side, should I have to pay for a new license when I don't need the new features and am perfectly happy staying on the existing version if it only would continue to work? To give two quick examples of this I used to run Parallels on my Mac so I could run a couple of Windows apps that I absolutely had to have and it would have been very inconvenient to use a boot camp setup and reboot every time I needed access. Then when the Mac version changed Parallels quit working; my only option was to buy a new license for Parallels. To make matters worse; you never really know what software will break when there is an upgrade, but if you don't upgrade then you end up in the boat that some other piece of software you are running does get updated, but you can't use that software without getting the latest version of Mac. When I compare this to Windows; I'm still running today on Windows 10 software that I purchased for Windows 95. For all of the many things I dislike about Windows; the one thing I applaud them for is their level of backwards compatibility.
    - bunderbunder 10y ago
      Or how about popping a dialog to inform me that cellular data is disabled for $app every time I open it while not connected to wifi, even though $app most certainly does not require access to data in order to work. I'm of the "avoid popups at all cost" school of UI design. As soon as you let developers have modal UI that isn't meant to accomplish a specific, user-initiated task, they will immediately start using that power to be obnoxious.
      - bigbugbag 10y ago
        Usually $app actually requires access to internet for stuff you are unaware of.
  - xigency 10y ago
    Hm, iOS 10 seemed more like a feature release than a security one. I've finally stopped getting update notifications after I rolled back my phone. Update: Still getting nuisance notifications.
    - walterbell 10y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13120242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13120242
  - wernercd 10y ago
    Security update? 9.3.4 => 9.3.5? That's an update 9.3.5 => 10.0 is not a "security update". Constant nagware until you update is asinine. "Update Now or Later?"... f* you, I don't like what I see in 10... but I'm stuck with dancing around daily fucking warnings. I swear... I'm not bitter :) I also won't buy another iPhone.
    - walterbell 10y ago
      Workaround: the iOS10 update requires 1GB of space. The nag only appears if the update has been auto-downloaded. Use "Manage Storage" to delete the 1GB update file for iOS10. THen load enough music/video on your iPhone so there is less than 1GB space. Presto, no more iOS10 download (won't fit) and no more nagging.
      - msandford 10y ago
        Gross that you have to go to these lengths, but upvoted for having a solution.
      - 13of40 10y ago
        My solution was to give the iPad to my kid and get an Android.
        PacketPaul 10y ago
        And you will never get an OS update again. Android products seem to be orphaned at whatever OS is current at the time of production. Just bought a new Android table and it had lollipop. Turns out you cannot get the most recent OS for it so I am stuck with a 2 year old OS.
        Senji 10y ago
        Ditto 4.4
        bad_user 10y ago
        First of all there's a big difference in how Android gets upgraded. Google doesn't need to upgrade the base operating system in order to push changes to its apps and they can even push security fixes and upgrades to the base operating system by means of Play Services and supporting libraries by which they push backports. It also depends on the Android device. I have a Nexus 6, released 2014, that's on the latest Android 7 (Nougat) and my old Nexus 4, released 2012, is on Android 5 (Lollipop). Maybe I would have preferred if my Nexus 4 also got upgraded to the latest, but then again it might not have the needed juice, I like very much how it runs right now and all the apps I use still work and receive updates. And I also have an older iPad that got upgraded by Apple and is now unusable. Even so, with Apple there's no way out - once upgraded, it stays upgraded and once support is dropped, it stays droppped. With my Nexus I have a choice - because of Android's nature I can always use CyanogenMod. It's not exactly a solution for the non-technical-savvy, but it works.
  - Silhouette 10y ago
    But Apple doesn't just push security updates. They have a well established track record of pushing entire new OSes the same way, a very poor record of crippling performance or outright bricking older ("old" is hardly a fair description) devices in the process, and a stubborn insistence that applying these updates is a one-way process that may never be reverted regardless of any harm they do. Any business that adopts such customer-hostile policies deserves every bit of resistance they bring upon themselves, and I have not the slightest sympathy for them.
  - closeparen 10y ago
    I can't, since the "tonight" option never works and "right now" I'm interacting with my phone for a specific purpose that (like navigation) that won't wait half an hour or three quarters of a charge for an OS upgrade.
- btbuildem 10y ago
  I find it insidious how they present the lock screen at that point -- I clicked to dismiss, but they're asking for authorization still.
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    Right, the whole "enter your PIN to update tonight" screen. I just gave into the nags and updated my old iPod Touch (which I only use as a remote for some home automation things), and now it runs considerably slower.
    - bunderbunder 10y ago
      Yeah, I gave in on my iPhone and now it runs really hot. But this time around they're being so annoying about it that having an OS that clearly wasn't designed with my hardware in mind is probably the preferable option. Long story short, I'm pretty sure this phone is my last iPhone.
Spooky23 10y ago
How's that shaming? It's not sayin "Do it later, I'm a lazy bum."
- Hupriene 10y ago
  It's not directly shaming, but it presents the user with three options. 1. Comply with whatever they want you to do 2. Lie (say that you are going to comply later without intending to) 3. Walk away from the product (perhaps forever).
holografix 10y ago
The crying bear got me laughing. Did someone really pull such a low blow as this?!
- majewsky 10y ago
  scrolls down for the crying bear Holy sh*t! That's really low. The only one where I can give an honest answer is "No, I love my laptop too much to upgrade." I'm actually having exactly this problem. I would like to upgrade to a new notebook with more RAM (4 GB soldered in is becoming a bit claustrophobic these days), but I have several rare autographs on my notebook cover and don't want to abandon it.
tgb 10y ago
This one might be the best: https://copyhackers.com/2014/01/fallen-scuzzy-design-trend-pop-ups/ https://copyhackers.com/2014/01/fallen-scuzzy-design-trend-p... (Note the content of the article, then move your mouse up to try to go to close the tab. Irony!)
- taneq 10y ago
  That has /got/ to be deliberate.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  Honestly one that only appears when you go to close the tab is a lot less obtrusive. And besides that I don't think being in-your-face really makes something fall into "dark patterns."
- wingerlang 10y ago
  Did you read the content yourself? They are saying that the "show before close" is a good thing, so what's the irony? Read the "Step Into The Light" section.
  - tgb 10y ago
    It's not the pop-up that's ironic per se, it's the phrasing of the "no" button.
- bigbugbag 10y ago
  what is supposed to happen ? I moved the pointer and closed the tab without anything happening.
  - tgb 10y ago
    A popup which shows this dark pattern. Try it again in a private/incognito tab since it'll only do it the first time. Or don't bother: it's not exactly super exciting.
tremon 10y ago
I don't get how this practice gets to live on anything other than uninstall screens. If I'm presented with an option like that, my first response is to close the window (whether app or webpage), then uninstall everything from that vendor. Heck, I even uninstalled every jwz package from my Debian systems after the xscreensaver fiasco.

cm2187 10y ago

And even Apple is doing it. You you want to update your iphone now or tonight?

artursapek 10y ago
Software updates are the rare case where I can forgive it. It's annoying to have clients actively resisting updates, especially security updates.
- cm2187 10y ago
  If it was only about the security update. But in the case of iOS it is not. It's is the opportunity to start the nagging all over again. Please start using iCloud. Let's use Apple Pay now. Let's use Apple Music. On every single minor "security" update...
  - bigtunacan 10y ago
    Even worse; let's break backwards compatibility with your paid software so that you have to purchase an upgrade license... If you've had a Mac long enough and you run paid software you know what I'm talking about. :(
    - thirdsun 10y ago
      Considering the wide availability of beta OS updates, I'd say that's on the developers of said software. Sure, as someone who works in audio and has to deal with a range of software instruments/effects and audio interface drivers, I know exactly what you're talking about and I have little understanding for developers expensive software/hardware that don't test and fix their products before OS releases.
      - Silhouette 10y ago
        Considering the wide availability of beta OS updates, I'd say that's on the developers of said software. Why? If the developers produced a product that works and sold it to a user at a fair price, why on earth should those developers then have some sort of indefinite responsibility for producing updates because other people chose to break compatibility? There is a reason we have standards and there is a reason it's important for system software in particular to define and support standard interfaces. In fact, that is arguably the primary function of an operating system: to provide a stable platform on which other software can run. The fact that some of the main OS providers no longer seem to recognise this and instead consider instability and backward-incompatibility to be strategic assets makes me genuinely afraid for the near future of our industry. If I want to do something as simple as buying a laptop for one of my small businesses tomorrow, so someone can get on with useful work and will be able to continue doing so for a long time, there are currently no good options available.
      - bigtunacan 10y ago
        I certainly disagree on this point. Take the case of a small software company that ends up not being all that successful. I purchase a license for said software; it is useful for me, but the company goes out of business since they are unprofitable. Now Apple breaks backwards compatibility with this software when I upgrade. Even in the case of the software maker still being in business, should they have to provide me free upgrades for life? If they do that then they have diminishing profits with every upgrade. On the flip side, should I have to pay for a new license when I don't need the new features and am perfectly happy staying on the existing version if it only would continue to work? To give two quick examples of this I used to run Parallels on my Mac so I could run a couple of Windows apps that I absolutely had to have and it would have been very inconvenient to use a boot camp setup and reboot every time I needed access. Then when the Mac version changed Parallels quit working; my only option was to buy a new license for Parallels. To make matters worse; you never really know what software will break when there is an upgrade, but if you don't upgrade then you end up in the boat that some other piece of software you are running does get updated, but you can't use that software without getting the latest version of Mac. When I compare this to Windows; I'm still running today on Windows 10 software that I purchased for Windows 95. For all of the many things I dislike about Windows; the one thing I applaud them for is their level of backwards compatibility.
  - bunderbunder 10y ago
    Or how about popping a dialog to inform me that cellular data is disabled for $app every time I open it while not connected to wifi, even though $app most certainly does not require access to data in order to work. I'm of the "avoid popups at all cost" school of UI design. As soon as you let developers have modal UI that isn't meant to accomplish a specific, user-initiated task, they will immediately start using that power to be obnoxious.
    - bigbugbag 10y ago
      Usually $app actually requires access to internet for stuff you are unaware of.
- xigency 10y ago
  Hm, iOS 10 seemed more like a feature release than a security one. I've finally stopped getting update notifications after I rolled back my phone. Update: Still getting nuisance notifications.
  - walterbell 10y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13120242 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13120242
- wernercd 10y ago
  Security update? 9.3.4 => 9.3.5? That's an update 9.3.5 => 10.0 is not a "security update". Constant nagware until you update is asinine. "Update Now or Later?"... f* you, I don't like what I see in 10... but I'm stuck with dancing around daily fucking warnings. I swear... I'm not bitter :) I also won't buy another iPhone.
  - walterbell 10y ago
    Workaround: the iOS10 update requires 1GB of space. The nag only appears if the update has been auto-downloaded. Use "Manage Storage" to delete the 1GB update file for iOS10. THen load enough music/video on your iPhone so there is less than 1GB space. Presto, no more iOS10 download (won't fit) and no more nagging.
    - msandford 10y ago
      Gross that you have to go to these lengths, but upvoted for having a solution.
    - 13of40 10y ago
      My solution was to give the iPad to my kid and get an Android.
      - PacketPaul 10y ago
        And you will never get an OS update again. Android products seem to be orphaned at whatever OS is current at the time of production. Just bought a new Android table and it had lollipop. Turns out you cannot get the most recent OS for it so I am stuck with a 2 year old OS.
        Senji 10y ago
        Ditto 4.4
        bad_user 10y ago
        First of all there's a big difference in how Android gets upgraded. Google doesn't need to upgrade the base operating system in order to push changes to its apps and they can even push security fixes and upgrades to the base operating system by means of Play Services and supporting libraries by which they push backports. It also depends on the Android device. I have a Nexus 6, released 2014, that's on the latest Android 7 (Nougat) and my old Nexus 4, released 2012, is on Android 5 (Lollipop). Maybe I would have preferred if my Nexus 4 also got upgraded to the latest, but then again it might not have the needed juice, I like very much how it runs right now and all the apps I use still work and receive updates. And I also have an older iPad that got upgraded by Apple and is now unusable. Even so, with Apple there's no way out - once upgraded, it stays upgraded and once support is dropped, it stays droppped. With my Nexus I have a choice - because of Android's nature I can always use CyanogenMod. It's not exactly a solution for the non-technical-savvy, but it works.
- Silhouette 10y ago
  But Apple doesn't just push security updates. They have a well established track record of pushing entire new OSes the same way, a very poor record of crippling performance or outright bricking older ("old" is hardly a fair description) devices in the process, and a stubborn insistence that applying these updates is a one-way process that may never be reverted regardless of any harm they do. Any business that adopts such customer-hostile policies deserves every bit of resistance they bring upon themselves, and I have not the slightest sympathy for them.
- closeparen 10y ago
  I can't, since the "tonight" option never works and "right now" I'm interacting with my phone for a specific purpose that (like navigation) that won't wait half an hour or three quarters of a charge for an OS upgrade.
btbuildem 10y ago
I find it insidious how they present the lock screen at that point -- I clicked to dismiss, but they're asking for authorization still.
- nitrogen 10y ago
  Right, the whole "enter your PIN to update tonight" screen. I just gave into the nags and updated my old iPod Touch (which I only use as a remote for some home automation things), and now it runs considerably slower.
  - bunderbunder 10y ago
    Yeah, I gave in on my iPhone and now it runs really hot. But this time around they're being so annoying about it that having an OS that clearly wasn't designed with my hardware in mind is probably the preferable option. Long story short, I'm pretty sure this phone is my last iPhone.

Spooky23 10y ago

How's that shaming? It's not sayin "Do it later, I'm a lazy bum."

Hupriene 10y ago
It's not directly shaming, but it presents the user with three options. 1. Comply with whatever they want you to do 2. Lie (say that you are going to comply later without intending to) 3. Walk away from the product (perhaps forever).

holografix 10y ago

The crying bear got me laughing. Did someone really pull such a low blow as this?!

majewsky 10y ago
scrolls down for the crying bear Holy sh*t! That's really low. The only one where I can give an honest answer is "No, I love my laptop too much to upgrade." I'm actually having exactly this problem. I would like to upgrade to a new notebook with more RAM (4 GB soldered in is becoming a bit claustrophobic these days), but I have several rare autographs on my notebook cover and don't want to abandon it.

tgb 10y ago

This one might be the best: https://copyhackers.com/2014/01/fallen-scuzzy-design-trend-pop-ups/ https://copyhackers.com/2014/01/fallen-scuzzy-design-trend-p... (Note the content of the article, then move your mouse up to try to go to close the tab. Irony!)

taneq 10y ago
That has /got/ to be deliberate.
emodendroket 10y ago
Honestly one that only appears when you go to close the tab is a lot less obtrusive. And besides that I don't think being in-your-face really makes something fall into "dark patterns."
wingerlang 10y ago
Did you read the content yourself? They are saying that the "show before close" is a good thing, so what's the irony? Read the "Step Into The Light" section.
- tgb 10y ago
  It's not the pop-up that's ironic per se, it's the phrasing of the "no" button.
bigbugbag 10y ago
what is supposed to happen ? I moved the pointer and closed the tab without anything happening.
- tgb 10y ago
  A popup which shows this dark pattern. Try it again in a private/incognito tab since it'll only do it the first time. Or don't bother: it's not exactly super exciting.

tremon 10y ago

I don't get how this practice gets to live on anything other than uninstall screens. If I'm presented with an option like that, my first response is to close the window (whether app or webpage), then uninstall everything from that vendor. Heck, I even uninstalled every jwz package from my Debian systems after the xscreensaver fiasco.