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There's a difference between beating depression, which the parent comment is talking about, and being 'over' depression, which is what your comment is talking a

There's a difference between beating depression, which the parent comment is talking about, and being 'over' depression, which is what your comment is talking about. Beating depression requires mastering one's own inner life and changing the mechanics of how one thinks and interprets the world. This really does give you super powers coming out of it. And it makes you essentially depression-proof. Those 2% to 9% of people committing suicide are not people who have beat depression. Getting 'over' depression is what happens when the depressed individual experiences a change in life circumstances or another external or temporary internal event that removes the depression for now. That depression can always come back, and among the people I know who haven't beat depression, it always seems to. They never get the 'super powers' because they never beat it. Most of the highly successful, most gregarious people I know were deeply depressed at one point, beat it, and became expert problem solvers with superhuman capacities for perseverance. You could take their business from them, have them walk in on their spouse cheating on them, and find out their children aren't theirs and they'd be sad for a week or two then get right back on with rebuilding their lives again as soon as they finished deconstructing the problem and mapped out a new path for themselves. Depression almost seems like a gauntlet certain high potential individuals have to pass through. Some of them make it through the gauntlet and get those super powers. Others don't make it through the gauntlet, step out for a breather, then go back in again. Then maybe they make it through that time, or maybe it's back out, then back in again. I have family members who've been sucked into the depression gauntlet repeatedly without ever beating it, and you can tell they have the potential for 'super powers', but never get them.

hash-set 10y ago
Wow. I have never heard anything about this before and yet it explains a great deal about my own life.
rmcfeeley 10y ago
Thanks for this comment. Extremely thoughtful. Would you elaborate on the "super powers" that you hint at here as being reserved for those who have made it to the Post-Depression state? As a clinically depressed person, I am, in some ways, still very much caught up in the "gauntlet" you describe here. It would be interesting to hear what I can look forward to when I finally.. purchase your online course?
- taco_emoji 10y ago
  I had a lot of success with a combination of SSRIs and the cognitive-behavioral therapy techniques laid out in the book Feeling Good by psychiatrist David Burns. It's a pretty dry read, but my overall takeaway is that many forms of depression and anxiety are the result of flawed cognitive biases, and that with some practice you can learn to recognize them and catch yourself. (The SSRI helped dull the despair and worry enough to make that self-analysis possible.) In a weird way, it's like you learn to treat yourself like any other human. If I got stood up for a date, my Asshole Brain would tell me my life was pointless, I'm ugly and unlovable, I'll be alone forever, etc. If a friend was in the same situation, my Good Guy Brain tells them the real, logical things: that it sucks but it's not your fault, the date probably had an emergency or just sucks at life, there are lots of other people to date, etc. So it's a practice of learning to treat yourself like you'd treat that friend. Obviously it's not that simple - you can read these words and nod your head along with them, but in the middle of a depressive episode, it's like the engines cut out on your airplane and you don't know how to fly and why bother flying anyway. Pilots have to study and train for hours before they can fly a plane, but life just throws you right in the mix. It takes a BUNCH of study and training and thought experiments, plus maybe discussing with a therapist or support group or Internet strangers, but eventually you can learn to recognize these emotionally difficult situations and engage the Good Guy Brain before the Asshole Brain takes over.
tumbling_stone 10y ago
This is exactly how I had assessed my situation. I had been largely depressed for the entire duration of my college, and no matter what I did I simply couldn't come out of it. However, with a slight improvement in the circumstances I could get back on track. But, it was just getting back on track and I realized that if the circumstances were to change I would be back to my state being depressed. I was so scared of going back to that fucked up state that I decided to radically change my thinking and behavior patterns until I could stomach the the nastiest crap hurled at me. Now I wouldn't say that I have any super powers even though it has been more than two years since I made that resolve, but I sure as hell am more happy and productive than ever in my life. Surprisingly, it's the practice of stoic philosophy (to me it means Karma Yoga, pioneered in the book Bhagwat Geeta, which bears uncanny resemblance to the stoic philosophy pioneered by Seneca and Markus Aurelius) that has helped stabilize my ever confused mind.
wu-ikkyu 10y ago
>Depression almost seems like a gauntlet certain high potential individuals have to pass through. Aeschylus thought so too: >He who learns must suffer; and even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom by the awful grace of God. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
thaumaturgy 10y ago
You mean well, and what you're saying may be helpful to people who struggle with certain feelings from time to time. But statements like these are extremely frustrating for people with actual depression. Depression is not just a state of mind you can change through will power. Here's a fun thing to do: if everything you believe about depression is applied to a broken arm or colorblindness and sounds ludicrous, then it's wrong. For example: "Beating a broken arm requires mastering one's own inner life and changing the mechanics of how one thinks and interprets the world..." Or: "Getting 'over' colorblindness is what happens when the colorblind individual experiences a change in life circumstances or another external or temporary internal event that removes the colorblindness for now." Depression changes the way you think. It removes your motivation for improving. I didn't pick these examples randomly; depression is a colorblindness of emotion. It is insidious, and nasty, and "thinking your way out of it" is something that's going to be regarded in the future the way that we regard blood-letting a fever now. There are treatments for it, with varying side effects, and there are some tactics people prone to depressive episodes can use to try to lessen the impact of their depression, but depression itself is not something you "beat". At best, it's something you learn to live with: having a broken brain for the rest of your life.
- Swizec 10y ago
  I've been severely depressed in my life. I think both you and OP are correct. You're applying the broken arm analogy incorrectly. Depression is a broken mind. Yes? A broken thought pattern, or response system, or something along those lines. Right? Therefore beating depression requires fixing that. Fixing your mind. When you put it into words, that comes out as: "requires mastering one's own inner life and changing the mechanics of how one thinks and interprets the world" Because that's what fixing your mind is. Applied to the broken arm analogy it becomes: "fixing a broken arm requires fixing your broken bone and learning how to use that arm again" Doesn't sound so crazy anymore does it? > Depression changes the way you think. It removes your motivation for improving. Which is why fixing the way you think is the only way you can fix depression. Whether that's through drugs, through sheer willpower, or by chanting prayers on top of a mountain in the himalayas. It all boils down to fixing the way you think.

hash-set 10y ago

Wow. I have never heard anything about this before and yet it explains a great deal about my own life.

rmcfeeley 10y ago

Thanks for this comment. Extremely thoughtful. Would you elaborate on the "super powers" that you hint at here as being reserved for those who have made it to the Post-Depression state? As a clinically depressed person, I am, in some ways, still very much caught up in the "gauntlet" you describe here. It would be interesting to hear what I can look forward to when I finally.. purchase your online course?

taco_emoji 10y ago
I had a lot of success with a combination of SSRIs and the cognitive-behavioral therapy techniques laid out in the book Feeling Good by psychiatrist David Burns. It's a pretty dry read, but my overall takeaway is that many forms of depression and anxiety are the result of flawed cognitive biases, and that with some practice you can learn to recognize them and catch yourself. (The SSRI helped dull the despair and worry enough to make that self-analysis possible.) In a weird way, it's like you learn to treat yourself like any other human. If I got stood up for a date, my Asshole Brain would tell me my life was pointless, I'm ugly and unlovable, I'll be alone forever, etc. If a friend was in the same situation, my Good Guy Brain tells them the real, logical things: that it sucks but it's not your fault, the date probably had an emergency or just sucks at life, there are lots of other people to date, etc. So it's a practice of learning to treat yourself like you'd treat that friend. Obviously it's not that simple - you can read these words and nod your head along with them, but in the middle of a depressive episode, it's like the engines cut out on your airplane and you don't know how to fly and why bother flying anyway. Pilots have to study and train for hours before they can fly a plane, but life just throws you right in the mix. It takes a BUNCH of study and training and thought experiments, plus maybe discussing with a therapist or support group or Internet strangers, but eventually you can learn to recognize these emotionally difficult situations and engage the Good Guy Brain before the Asshole Brain takes over.

tumbling_stone 10y ago

This is exactly how I had assessed my situation. I had been largely depressed for the entire duration of my college, and no matter what I did I simply couldn't come out of it. However, with a slight improvement in the circumstances I could get back on track. But, it was just getting back on track and I realized that if the circumstances were to change I would be back to my state being depressed. I was so scared of going back to that fucked up state that I decided to radically change my thinking and behavior patterns until I could stomach the the nastiest crap hurled at me. Now I wouldn't say that I have any super powers even though it has been more than two years since I made that resolve, but I sure as hell am more happy and productive than ever in my life. Surprisingly, it's the practice of stoic philosophy (to me it means Karma Yoga, pioneered in the book Bhagwat Geeta, which bears uncanny resemblance to the stoic philosophy pioneered by Seneca and Markus Aurelius) that has helped stabilize my ever confused mind.

wu-ikkyu 10y ago

>Depression almost seems like a gauntlet certain high potential individuals have to pass through. Aeschylus thought so too: >He who learns must suffer; and even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom by the awful grace of God. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon

thaumaturgy 10y ago

You mean well, and what you're saying may be helpful to people who struggle with certain feelings from time to time. But statements like these are extremely frustrating for people with actual depression. Depression is not just a state of mind you can change through will power. Here's a fun thing to do: if everything you believe about depression is applied to a broken arm or colorblindness and sounds ludicrous, then it's wrong. For example: "Beating a broken arm requires mastering one's own inner life and changing the mechanics of how one thinks and interprets the world..." Or: "Getting 'over' colorblindness is what happens when the colorblind individual experiences a change in life circumstances or another external or temporary internal event that removes the colorblindness for now." Depression changes the way you think. It removes your motivation for improving. I didn't pick these examples randomly; depression is a colorblindness of emotion. It is insidious, and nasty, and "thinking your way out of it" is something that's going to be regarded in the future the way that we regard blood-letting a fever now. There are treatments for it, with varying side effects, and there are some tactics people prone to depressive episodes can use to try to lessen the impact of their depression, but depression itself is not something you "beat". At best, it's something you learn to live with: having a broken brain for the rest of your life.

Swizec 10y ago
I've been severely depressed in my life. I think both you and OP are correct. You're applying the broken arm analogy incorrectly. Depression is a broken mind. Yes? A broken thought pattern, or response system, or something along those lines. Right? Therefore beating depression requires fixing that. Fixing your mind. When you put it into words, that comes out as: "requires mastering one's own inner life and changing the mechanics of how one thinks and interprets the world" Because that's what fixing your mind is. Applied to the broken arm analogy it becomes: "fixing a broken arm requires fixing your broken bone and learning how to use that arm again" Doesn't sound so crazy anymore does it? > Depression changes the way you think. It removes your motivation for improving. Which is why fixing the way you think is the only way you can fix depression. Whether that's through drugs, through sheer willpower, or by chanting prayers on top of a mountain in the himalayas. It all boils down to fixing the way you think.