5 ms·

Just to be clear, 7% of Apple's global power is still dirty and they have not made any public commitment to bring that down any further. Google is a much much

by evanws 10y ago

Just to be clear, 7% of Apple's global power is still dirty and they have not made any public commitment to bring that down any further. Google is a much much larger energy consumer, has been carbon neutral since 2007, and is going to use 100% renewables globally within the next year. Also, Google made its energy company play back in 2010. Apple made theirs in 2016.

snarkyturtle 10y ago
100% renewables for their data centers. In the same way that Apple's total power is still partly dirty I'd think some of their offices won't be running entirely off the grid.
- astrodust 10y ago
  Apple is making great strides towards getting their offices off the grid as well. Their new campus has a considerable amount of solar deployed on-site plus they're partnering with other companies to provide power from off-site. http://qz.com/342240/apple-is-building-a-massive-farm-of-solar-panels-to-power-its-new-campus/ http://qz.com/342240/apple-is-building-a-massive-farm-of-sol...
- evanws 10y ago
  It isn't just data centers, they're going to hit 100% renewables for global operations. From Google's 2016 energy report: "And in 2017 Google will reach 100% renewable energy for our global operations..."
  - jdc0589 10y ago
    Its not just datacenters, but those are the biggest consumer of energy by a disproportionate amount.
  - megablast 10y ago
    So the Pixels made by HTC are also using renewable energy?
    - NEDM64 10y ago
      No.
droopyEyelids 10y ago
Without more detail this isn't useful information. For example, Apple's global power consumption definitely includes power used in manufacturing, a problem that Google externalizes from this sort of computation.
CPLX 10y ago
> Google is a much much larger energy consumer That seems implausible. The electrical requirements of Aluminum production are extreme. Obviously there's a lot of issues about where one draws the line between the company and its subcontractors and so on, but it seems hard to believe Apple's global energy footprint is not higher than Google's
- mda 10y ago
  I didn't know Apple produced its own aluminum.
  - IBM 10y ago
    Apple includes their suppliers, retail stores, offices, and customers' product use in their carbon footprint (in addition to data centers) [1]: When we measure our carbon footprint, we include hundreds of suppliers, millions of customers, and hundreds of millions of devices. And we’re always looking for ways to make the biggest difference in five major areas: manufacturing, product use, facilities, transportation, and recycling. [1] http://www.apple.com/environment/climate-change/ http://www.apple.com/environment/climate-change/
    - low_battery 10y ago
      Edit: Correction by 3 orders of magnitude because of multiplication error :) Then lets do a back of the envelope calculation for energy consumption for Apple's aluminum use. Very roughly Apple sells ~25 million macs and ~200 million iphones per year. Again lets assume that it needs 2kg of aluminum for macbooks and 100g for phones (not all iphones are aluminum and this might be lower), that makes ~70 thousand metric tonnes of aluminum. Modern smelters use 13KW/h to produce 1 kilogram of aluminum, but their production involves recycled aluminum (and possibly shavings from milling?) so number should be lower, lets say it is 10KWH per kilo. This makes 70M*10KWh = 700GW/h year Google's datacenter energy consumption, is difficult to guess, if there are 1 million servers, and assuming each server consumes 10KWH per day, then it makes ~3.5 TWH per year. This is apples to oranges of course, aluminum vs server running energy costs, but still kinda implies that Google uses more energy, at least directly.
kevinchen 10y ago
Apple has pressured Foxconn to build out renewable capacity for certain steps of iPhone manufacturing by 2018. There is a lot of work to be done in manufacturing (much harder problem) but they have definitely made a public commitment to reduce the impact: https://www.apple.com/pr/library/2015/10/22Apple-Launches-New-Clean-Energy-Programs-in-China-To-Promote-Low-Carbon-Manufacturing-and-Green-Growth.html https://www.apple.com/pr/library/2015/10/22Apple-Launches-Ne...
- Ph0X 10y ago
  Let's just agree that both Apple and Google are doing fantastic jobs in this sector, and other big tech companies need to step it up.
  - infectoid 10y ago
    Indeed. Let's not drive a wedge where none is needed.
- sangnoir 10y ago
  I think the point parent was making was that Google (as a whole, not just data centers) is leading the industry to 100% renewable energy. Something Apple - which is making great advances - is yet to achieve.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jjtheblunt 10y ago
citation for the assertion "Google is a much larger energy consumer" ?
- ariwilson 10y ago
  https://blog.google/topics/environment/100-percent-renewable-energy/ https://blog.google/topics/environment/100-percent-renewable... Google is purchasing 2600GW of renewable energy as of Nov 2016, while Apple is purchasing around 150GW.
CptJamesCook 10y ago
Too bad Google's founders fly all over the world on private jets, doing far more damage than these measures prevent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviati...
- SixSigma 10y ago
  How do iPhones get exported from China ?
  - CptJamesCook 10y ago
    Air freight.
- late2part 10y ago
  Now you're just being silly. Yes, I'm sure they enjoy a luxurious transport and it would be more efficient for them to walk or take a rowboat or fly commercial. But the energy used, carbon emitted, is fairly small for the 1000 or so flights they take relative to the aggregate benefit they're making by buying so much "cleaner" power. You really ought consider the relative perspective, I don't think their 757 carbon impact compares to the output of a 5MW data center running 24/7.
  - CptJamesCook 10y ago
    A 747 in the air consumes more power than every single home in San Francisco. "A Boeing 747 jet has an average power consumption of 140 megawatts." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(power) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(power) You can use this link to see San Francisco's power usage in 2015: http://ecdms.energy.ca.gov/elecbycounty.aspx http://ecdms.energy.ca.gov/elecbycounty.aspx It was almost exactly 140 megawatts/hour * 24 hours * 365 days. I highly doubt Google's worldwide data centers use more power than all of SF. So, not silly!
    - douche 10y ago
NEDM64 10y ago
Cognitive dissonance, it's your problem.

by evanws 10y ago

snarkyturtle 10y ago

100% renewables for their data centers. In the same way that Apple's total power is still partly dirty I'd think some of their offices won't be running entirely off the grid.

astrodust 10y ago
Apple is making great strides towards getting their offices off the grid as well. Their new campus has a considerable amount of solar deployed on-site plus they're partnering with other companies to provide power from off-site. http://qz.com/342240/apple-is-building-a-massive-farm-of-solar-panels-to-power-its-new-campus/ http://qz.com/342240/apple-is-building-a-massive-farm-of-sol...
evanws 10y ago
It isn't just data centers, they're going to hit 100% renewables for global operations. From Google's 2016 energy report: "And in 2017 Google will reach 100% renewable energy for our global operations..."
- jdc0589 10y ago
  Its not just datacenters, but those are the biggest consumer of energy by a disproportionate amount.
- megablast 10y ago
  So the Pixels made by HTC are also using renewable energy?
  - NEDM64 10y ago
    No.

droopyEyelids 10y ago

Without more detail this isn't useful information. For example, Apple's global power consumption definitely includes power used in manufacturing, a problem that Google externalizes from this sort of computation.

CPLX 10y ago

> Google is a much much larger energy consumer That seems implausible. The electrical requirements of Aluminum production are extreme. Obviously there's a lot of issues about where one draws the line between the company and its subcontractors and so on, but it seems hard to believe Apple's global energy footprint is not higher than Google's

mda 10y ago
I didn't know Apple produced its own aluminum.
- IBM 10y ago
  Apple includes their suppliers, retail stores, offices, and customers' product use in their carbon footprint (in addition to data centers) [1]: When we measure our carbon footprint, we include hundreds of suppliers, millions of customers, and hundreds of millions of devices. And we’re always looking for ways to make the biggest difference in five major areas: manufacturing, product use, facilities, transportation, and recycling. [1] http://www.apple.com/environment/climate-change/ http://www.apple.com/environment/climate-change/
  - low_battery 10y ago
    Edit: Correction by 3 orders of magnitude because of multiplication error :) Then lets do a back of the envelope calculation for energy consumption for Apple's aluminum use. Very roughly Apple sells ~25 million macs and ~200 million iphones per year. Again lets assume that it needs 2kg of aluminum for macbooks and 100g for phones (not all iphones are aluminum and this might be lower), that makes ~70 thousand metric tonnes of aluminum. Modern smelters use 13KW/h to produce 1 kilogram of aluminum, but their production involves recycled aluminum (and possibly shavings from milling?) so number should be lower, lets say it is 10KWH per kilo. This makes 70M*10KWh = 700GW/h year Google's datacenter energy consumption, is difficult to guess, if there are 1 million servers, and assuming each server consumes 10KWH per day, then it makes ~3.5 TWH per year. This is apples to oranges of course, aluminum vs server running energy costs, but still kinda implies that Google uses more energy, at least directly.

kevinchen 10y ago

Apple has pressured Foxconn to build out renewable capacity for certain steps of iPhone manufacturing by 2018. There is a lot of work to be done in manufacturing (much harder problem) but they have definitely made a public commitment to reduce the impact: https://www.apple.com/pr/library/2015/10/22Apple-Launches-New-Clean-Energy-Programs-in-China-To-Promote-Low-Carbon-Manufacturing-and-Green-Growth.html https://www.apple.com/pr/library/2015/10/22Apple-Launches-Ne...

Ph0X 10y ago
Let's just agree that both Apple and Google are doing fantastic jobs in this sector, and other big tech companies need to step it up.
- infectoid 10y ago
  Indeed. Let's not drive a wedge where none is needed.
sangnoir 10y ago
I think the point parent was making was that Google (as a whole, not just data centers) is leading the industry to 100% renewable energy. Something Apple - which is making great advances - is yet to achieve.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jjtheblunt 10y ago

citation for the assertion "Google is a much larger energy consumer" ?

ariwilson 10y ago
https://blog.google/topics/environment/100-percent-renewable-energy/ https://blog.google/topics/environment/100-percent-renewable... Google is purchasing 2600GW of renewable energy as of Nov 2016, while Apple is purchasing around 150GW.

CptJamesCook 10y ago

Too bad Google's founders fly all over the world on private jets, doing far more damage than these measures prevent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviati...

SixSigma 10y ago
How do iPhones get exported from China ?
- CptJamesCook 10y ago
  Air freight.
late2part 10y ago
Now you're just being silly. Yes, I'm sure they enjoy a luxurious transport and it would be more efficient for them to walk or take a rowboat or fly commercial. But the energy used, carbon emitted, is fairly small for the 1000 or so flights they take relative to the aggregate benefit they're making by buying so much "cleaner" power. You really ought consider the relative perspective, I don't think their 757 carbon impact compares to the output of a 5MW data center running 24/7.
- CptJamesCook 10y ago
  A 747 in the air consumes more power than every single home in San Francisco. "A Boeing 747 jet has an average power consumption of 140 megawatts." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(power) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(power) You can use this link to see San Francisco's power usage in 2015: http://ecdms.energy.ca.gov/elecbycounty.aspx http://ecdms.energy.ca.gov/elecbycounty.aspx It was almost exactly 140 megawatts/hour * 24 hours * 365 days. I highly doubt Google's worldwide data centers use more power than all of SF. So, not silly!
  - douche 10y ago

NEDM64 10y ago

Cognitive dissonance, it's your problem.