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Ok, let me elaborate the opinion of the few non-psychiatrists I mentioned. They say that people with depression need professional help, but they have a nonortho

Ok, let me elaborate the opinion of the few non-psychiatrists I mentioned. They say that people with depression need professional help, but they have a nonorthodox definition of "help". If you are opressed by a dictatoric goverment the "help" can be leaving the country and getting your family out there. If you are in a bad relationship you can break up. If you have a soul-sucking job you can resign. These are all depressing situations you "are allowed to" feel depressed about because this is the normal human reaction to them. But getting out of them can help you.

david-given 10y ago
That's not depression. That's being depressed. They're two radically different things. Being depressed is when you're in a bad mood because your favourite sports team has lost a match. Depression is when you cannot think rationally because you're ill and your brain isn't working properly. Really, there needs to be a better name for this. Calling it 'depression' makes it sound too trivial. It's not; it's an illness. Once you've got depression, you're screwed, because your mental processes aren't working properly. Your value system gets twisted and distorted so that you can't make rational choices any more. Even if you recognise the action you need to take you get out of it, you may not be able to take it --- because you have a fricking brain malfunction. It's got nothing to do with willpower or choice. It's an illness that takes your free will away. I'm with the parent here; these non-psychiatrists sound like they're talking dangerous nonsense.
- CuriouslyC 10y ago
  I've overcome extreme treatment resistant depression. In my experience, fixing how you think and interpret events is the only permanent solution. If your thinking leads to depression, drugs will only work temporarily.
- NumberCruncher 10y ago
  If my sports team has lost a match I am sad, disappointed or angry. In a situation like this I would never use the word "depressed", but I am not a native speaker, so who knows, maybe I am wrong at this point. IMHO the main question is whether you take responsibility for your situation or not. Actually great responsibility comes with great power and not vice versa. Calling depression an illness you give up your responsibility and give up also your power over it. On the other hand depression is an illness, obesity is an illness, homelessness is caused mainly by mental illness (we had this newly on HN), there were times where under average intelligence was considered as an illness. A brave new world of lack of responsibility...
  - thaumaturgy 10y ago
    > Calling depression an illness you give up your responsibility and give up also your power over it. No, not at all. You merely change the tactics you use for dealing with it.
  - curun1r 10y ago
    The most frustrating part of the depressed vs depression terminology was that it led people who've never had depression to feel like they can relate to what someone going through depression is going through. It made them feel qualified to talk about depression, offer advice or try to "help" in all those ways that people try to help that are just so counterproductive. Plainly put, if you've never experienced depression, you have no idea what it's like...even people who have experienced depression often have no idea what it's like for other sufferers. The normal downs that you've experienced have nothing in common with what a depressed person experiences. It's like someone who only sees in black and white trying to talk about colors by talking about shades of greys. Until you experience real color, you're only qualified to make second-hand observations. I get where people are coming from when they want to call it an illness. I believe that rather than an attempt to offload responsibility, it's an attempt to clarify a very poorly chosen label for the condition. Depression, as a word, just feels too accessible to someone who hasn't been in it.
    - NumberCruncher 10y ago
      You can make getting out of "the condition" to your own responsibility, if you want, even if getting there was not your fault. Or you can discuss the terminology of depression and clarify the label of "the condition" believing that this is not offloading the responsibility. It is your life, it is up to you what you make out of it. Unfortunately I can not build a 500 billion $ industry on this advice. My suggested lack of first hand experience is irrelevant.
      - retsibsi 10y ago
        To understand why people who disagree with you find this kind of advice frustrating, substitute some unambiguously physical, serious illness for 'depression', and re-read your comment. You need to start by convincing people that your preferred theory of depression is accurate, rather than giving them advice that only makes sense from that perspective. And on a topic like this, where first-person experience is a crucial part of the subject matter and third-person science is still inconclusive, of course your own (lack of?) experience is relevant.
jacalata 10y ago
That's the kind of crap that leads to people inventing causal explanations when teenagers from perfectly healthy backgrounds are depressed, instead of treating the actual problem. Source: my experience with exactly such a shitty counsellor as a teenager.

david-given 10y ago

That's not depression. That's being depressed. They're two radically different things. Being depressed is when you're in a bad mood because your favourite sports team has lost a match. Depression is when you cannot think rationally because you're ill and your brain isn't working properly. Really, there needs to be a better name for this. Calling it 'depression' makes it sound too trivial. It's not; it's an illness. Once you've got depression, you're screwed, because your mental processes aren't working properly. Your value system gets twisted and distorted so that you can't make rational choices any more. Even if you recognise the action you need to take you get out of it, you may not be able to take it --- because you have a fricking brain malfunction. It's got nothing to do with willpower or choice. It's an illness that takes your free will away. I'm with the parent here; these non-psychiatrists sound like they're talking dangerous nonsense.

CuriouslyC 10y ago
I've overcome extreme treatment resistant depression. In my experience, fixing how you think and interpret events is the only permanent solution. If your thinking leads to depression, drugs will only work temporarily.
NumberCruncher 10y ago
If my sports team has lost a match I am sad, disappointed or angry. In a situation like this I would never use the word "depressed", but I am not a native speaker, so who knows, maybe I am wrong at this point. IMHO the main question is whether you take responsibility for your situation or not. Actually great responsibility comes with great power and not vice versa. Calling depression an illness you give up your responsibility and give up also your power over it. On the other hand depression is an illness, obesity is an illness, homelessness is caused mainly by mental illness (we had this newly on HN), there were times where under average intelligence was considered as an illness. A brave new world of lack of responsibility...
- thaumaturgy 10y ago
  > Calling depression an illness you give up your responsibility and give up also your power over it. No, not at all. You merely change the tactics you use for dealing with it.
- curun1r 10y ago
  The most frustrating part of the depressed vs depression terminology was that it led people who've never had depression to feel like they can relate to what someone going through depression is going through. It made them feel qualified to talk about depression, offer advice or try to "help" in all those ways that people try to help that are just so counterproductive. Plainly put, if you've never experienced depression, you have no idea what it's like...even people who have experienced depression often have no idea what it's like for other sufferers. The normal downs that you've experienced have nothing in common with what a depressed person experiences. It's like someone who only sees in black and white trying to talk about colors by talking about shades of greys. Until you experience real color, you're only qualified to make second-hand observations. I get where people are coming from when they want to call it an illness. I believe that rather than an attempt to offload responsibility, it's an attempt to clarify a very poorly chosen label for the condition. Depression, as a word, just feels too accessible to someone who hasn't been in it.
  - NumberCruncher 10y ago
    You can make getting out of "the condition" to your own responsibility, if you want, even if getting there was not your fault. Or you can discuss the terminology of depression and clarify the label of "the condition" believing that this is not offloading the responsibility. It is your life, it is up to you what you make out of it. Unfortunately I can not build a 500 billion $ industry on this advice. My suggested lack of first hand experience is irrelevant.
    - retsibsi 10y ago
      To understand why people who disagree with you find this kind of advice frustrating, substitute some unambiguously physical, serious illness for 'depression', and re-read your comment. You need to start by convincing people that your preferred theory of depression is accurate, rather than giving them advice that only makes sense from that perspective. And on a topic like this, where first-person experience is a crucial part of the subject matter and third-person science is still inconclusive, of course your own (lack of?) experience is relevant.

jacalata 10y ago

That's the kind of crap that leads to people inventing causal explanations when teenagers from perfectly healthy backgrounds are depressed, instead of treating the actual problem. Source: my experience with exactly such a shitty counsellor as a teenager.