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Some people - they don't call themselves psychiatrist on purpose - say that depression is not a (mental) illness but a normal human reaction to "abuse". The Psy

Some people - they don't call themselves psychiatrist on purpose - say that depression is not a (mental) illness but a normal human reaction to "abuse". The Psychopath Code by Hintjens [1] describes how different entities (persons, societies, government, etc.) can "abuse" you. Putting the two things together gives an interesting view on depression. For me it is not surprising that people who have been "abused" in the past don't get fooled that easy the second time. IMHO the persons who successful overcome depression acquire some kind of "super power". The power which comes also with stoicism. [1] https://www.gitbook.com/book/hintjens/psychopathcode/details https://www.gitbook.com/book/hintjens/psychopathcode/details

drzaiusapelord 10y ago
I'm sorry but this is just crazy talk, no pun intended. My depression has hurt me in so many ways even if I'm 'over' it. It hasn't made me this world-weary stoic, it has hurt my ability to be an effective person, relate with others, socialize, be optimistic, etc. There's no silver lining to it. I think a lot of these extremist opinions are very dangerous and on the level of anti-vax stuff because they can cause death. 2% to 9% of people that have been diagnosed with depression in their lifetime will go on to complete suicide. These are non-trivial numbers. http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/depression/a/suiciderates.htm http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/depression/a/suiciderates.h...
- NumberCruncher 10y ago
  Ok, let me elaborate the opinion of the few non-psychiatrists I mentioned. They say that people with depression need professional help, but they have a nonorthodox definition of "help". If you are opressed by a dictatoric goverment the "help" can be leaving the country and getting your family out there. If you are in a bad relationship you can break up. If you have a soul-sucking job you can resign. These are all depressing situations you "are allowed to" feel depressed about because this is the normal human reaction to them. But getting out of them can help you.
  - david-given 10y ago
    That's not depression. That's being depressed. They're two radically different things. Being depressed is when you're in a bad mood because your favourite sports team has lost a match. Depression is when you cannot think rationally because you're ill and your brain isn't working properly. Really, there needs to be a better name for this. Calling it 'depression' makes it sound too trivial. It's not; it's an illness. Once you've got depression, you're screwed, because your mental processes aren't working properly. Your value system gets twisted and distorted so that you can't make rational choices any more. Even if you recognise the action you need to take you get out of it, you may not be able to take it --- because you have a fricking brain malfunction. It's got nothing to do with willpower or choice. It's an illness that takes your free will away. I'm with the parent here; these non-psychiatrists sound like they're talking dangerous nonsense.
    - CuriouslyC 10y ago
      I've overcome extreme treatment resistant depression. In my experience, fixing how you think and interpret events is the only permanent solution. If your thinking leads to depression, drugs will only work temporarily.
    - NumberCruncher 10y ago
      If my sports team has lost a match I am sad, disappointed or angry. In a situation like this I would never use the word "depressed", but I am not a native speaker, so who knows, maybe I am wrong at this point. IMHO the main question is whether you take responsibility for your situation or not. Actually great responsibility comes with great power and not vice versa. Calling depression an illness you give up your responsibility and give up also your power over it. On the other hand depression is an illness, obesity is an illness, homelessness is caused mainly by mental illness (we had this newly on HN), there were times where under average intelligence was considered as an illness. A brave new world of lack of responsibility...
      - thaumaturgy 10y ago
        > Calling depression an illness you give up your responsibility and give up also your power over it. No, not at all. You merely change the tactics you use for dealing with it.
- glenda 10y ago
  There are also lots of people being killed by drugs prescribed to help treat depression, many of them are suicides as well. These are not long-term solutions. The parent comment seems to be suggesting that people with depression need to take control of their own life by recognizing what makes them unhappy in order to overcome it. There is nothing harmful about that.
  - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
    Depression can occur regardless of economic or social situation.
    - jungletek 10y ago
      And that has what to do with the comment you're responding to?
  - thaumaturgy 10y ago
    I'm torn between wanting to close this tab immediately before I get irrationally furious at people who probably mean well, and wanting to battle this out with every comment like yours in the small hope that it changes at least one person's attitude towards depression. > The parent comment is suggesting that people with depression need to take control of their own life by recognizing what makes them unhappy in order to overcome it. Your comment is suggesting that depression -- clinical depression, not, "boo hoo things are tough right now and I'm unhappy" -- is the depressed person's own fault and all they need to do is change everything in their life until they're happy. It's really wrong. When you learn to levitate by taking control of your own life and recognizing what makes you happy, then you will have something to teach people who suffer from depression. Until then, I beg that you do more reading on the subject, and I'm happy to offer some of the material that I've found most useful. It's somewhat unfortunate that Allie Brosh's most famous work ended up being about her depression, but: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-... -- when she published this, people struggling with depression suddenly appeared out of nowhere and said, "YES, yes, this is it exactly!" It's a great and easy primer into the depressed mindset. She wrote a part two: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-par... Then watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDXCvtRxZ2E&list=UUK_QgiNMxVjgo-P0dybBNTw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDXCvtRxZ2E&list=UUK_QgiNMxV... Depression may well be an inflammatory disease, which means that multiple people in this thread are arguing for people to just wish away inflammation: http://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-200 http://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7... The stigma of depression -- which, unfortunately, is exacerbated by well-meaning but not well-informed people on the subject -- is one factor that prevents sufferers from seeking the help they need: http://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/stigma-as-a-barrier-to-mental-health-care.html http://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/stigma-as-... Stephen Fry, bless his heart, was at the beginning of the more recent efforts for sufferers to come forward, in spite of their fears about stigma, and discuss the disease: http://www.stephenfry.com/2013/06/only-the-lonely/ http://www.stephenfry.com/2013/06/only-the-lonely/ Hope this helps someone.
- throwaway7312 10y ago
  There's a difference between beating depression, which the parent comment is talking about, and being 'over' depression, which is what your comment is talking about. Beating depression requires mastering one's own inner life and changing the mechanics of how one thinks and interprets the world. This really does give you super powers coming out of it. And it makes you essentially depression-proof. Those 2% to 9% of people committing suicide are not people who have beat depression. Getting 'over' depression is what happens when the depressed individual experiences a change in life circumstances or another external or temporary internal event that removes the depression for now. That depression can always come back, and among the people I know who haven't beat depression, it always seems to. They never get the 'super powers' because they never beat it. Most of the highly successful, most gregarious people I know were deeply depressed at one point, beat it, and became expert problem solvers with superhuman capacities for perseverance. You could take their business from them, have them walk in on their spouse cheating on them, and find out their children aren't theirs and they'd be sad for a week or two then get right back on with rebuilding their lives again as soon as they finished deconstructing the problem and mapped out a new path for themselves. Depression almost seems like a gauntlet certain high potential individuals have to pass through. Some of them make it through the gauntlet and get those super powers. Others don't make it through the gauntlet, step out for a breather, then go back in again. Then maybe they make it through that time, or maybe it's back out, then back in again. I have family members who've been sucked into the depression gauntlet repeatedly without ever beating it, and you can tell they have the potential for 'super powers', but never get them.
  - hash-set 10y ago
    Wow. I have never heard anything about this before and yet it explains a great deal about my own life.
  - rmcfeeley 10y ago
    Thanks for this comment. Extremely thoughtful. Would you elaborate on the "super powers" that you hint at here as being reserved for those who have made it to the Post-Depression state? As a clinically depressed person, I am, in some ways, still very much caught up in the "gauntlet" you describe here. It would be interesting to hear what I can look forward to when I finally.. purchase your online course?
- danaliv 10y ago
  Can't understand why you're getting downvoted. My experience with depression is like yours. It's easy to romanticize mild depression. It's impossible to romanticize serious depression: an utter inability to feel, which paradoxically results in a sucking black hole of numb despair; not being able to get out of bed, never mind go to work, talk to friends, or engage with the world in any meaningful way; and ultimately suicide. Depression is not "sadness." It's not stoicism. It's a complete disconnection from reality with zero upside.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago

I'm sorry but this is just crazy talk, no pun intended. My depression has hurt me in so many ways even if I'm 'over' it. It hasn't made me this world-weary stoic, it has hurt my ability to be an effective person, relate with others, socialize, be optimistic, etc. There's no silver lining to it. I think a lot of these extremist opinions are very dangerous and on the level of anti-vax stuff because they can cause death. 2% to 9% of people that have been diagnosed with depression in their lifetime will go on to complete suicide. These are non-trivial numbers. http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/depression/a/suiciderates.htm http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/depression/a/suiciderates.h...

NumberCruncher 10y ago
Ok, let me elaborate the opinion of the few non-psychiatrists I mentioned. They say that people with depression need professional help, but they have a nonorthodox definition of "help". If you are opressed by a dictatoric goverment the "help" can be leaving the country and getting your family out there. If you are in a bad relationship you can break up. If you have a soul-sucking job you can resign. These are all depressing situations you "are allowed to" feel depressed about because this is the normal human reaction to them. But getting out of them can help you.
- david-given 10y ago
  That's not depression. That's being depressed. They're two radically different things. Being depressed is when you're in a bad mood because your favourite sports team has lost a match. Depression is when you cannot think rationally because you're ill and your brain isn't working properly. Really, there needs to be a better name for this. Calling it 'depression' makes it sound too trivial. It's not; it's an illness. Once you've got depression, you're screwed, because your mental processes aren't working properly. Your value system gets twisted and distorted so that you can't make rational choices any more. Even if you recognise the action you need to take you get out of it, you may not be able to take it --- because you have a fricking brain malfunction. It's got nothing to do with willpower or choice. It's an illness that takes your free will away. I'm with the parent here; these non-psychiatrists sound like they're talking dangerous nonsense.
  - CuriouslyC 10y ago
    I've overcome extreme treatment resistant depression. In my experience, fixing how you think and interpret events is the only permanent solution. If your thinking leads to depression, drugs will only work temporarily.
  - NumberCruncher 10y ago
    If my sports team has lost a match I am sad, disappointed or angry. In a situation like this I would never use the word "depressed", but I am not a native speaker, so who knows, maybe I am wrong at this point. IMHO the main question is whether you take responsibility for your situation or not. Actually great responsibility comes with great power and not vice versa. Calling depression an illness you give up your responsibility and give up also your power over it. On the other hand depression is an illness, obesity is an illness, homelessness is caused mainly by mental illness (we had this newly on HN), there were times where under average intelligence was considered as an illness. A brave new world of lack of responsibility...
    - thaumaturgy 10y ago
      > Calling depression an illness you give up your responsibility and give up also your power over it. No, not at all. You merely change the tactics you use for dealing with it.
glenda 10y ago
There are also lots of people being killed by drugs prescribed to help treat depression, many of them are suicides as well. These are not long-term solutions. The parent comment seems to be suggesting that people with depression need to take control of their own life by recognizing what makes them unhappy in order to overcome it. There is nothing harmful about that.
- SolaceQuantum 10y ago
  Depression can occur regardless of economic or social situation.
  - jungletek 10y ago
    And that has what to do with the comment you're responding to?
- thaumaturgy 10y ago
  I'm torn between wanting to close this tab immediately before I get irrationally furious at people who probably mean well, and wanting to battle this out with every comment like yours in the small hope that it changes at least one person's attitude towards depression. > The parent comment is suggesting that people with depression need to take control of their own life by recognizing what makes them unhappy in order to overcome it. Your comment is suggesting that depression -- clinical depression, not, "boo hoo things are tough right now and I'm unhappy" -- is the depressed person's own fault and all they need to do is change everything in their life until they're happy. It's really wrong. When you learn to levitate by taking control of your own life and recognizing what makes you happy, then you will have something to teach people who suffer from depression. Until then, I beg that you do more reading on the subject, and I'm happy to offer some of the material that I've found most useful. It's somewhat unfortunate that Allie Brosh's most famous work ended up being about her depression, but: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-... -- when she published this, people struggling with depression suddenly appeared out of nowhere and said, "YES, yes, this is it exactly!" It's a great and easy primer into the depressed mindset. She wrote a part two: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-par... Then watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDXCvtRxZ2E&list=UUK_QgiNMxVjgo-P0dybBNTw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDXCvtRxZ2E&list=UUK_QgiNMxV... Depression may well be an inflammatory disease, which means that multiple people in this thread are arguing for people to just wish away inflammation: http://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-11-200 http://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7... The stigma of depression -- which, unfortunately, is exacerbated by well-meaning but not well-informed people on the subject -- is one factor that prevents sufferers from seeking the help they need: http://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/stigma-as-a-barrier-to-mental-health-care.html http://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/stigma-as-... Stephen Fry, bless his heart, was at the beginning of the more recent efforts for sufferers to come forward, in spite of their fears about stigma, and discuss the disease: http://www.stephenfry.com/2013/06/only-the-lonely/ http://www.stephenfry.com/2013/06/only-the-lonely/ Hope this helps someone.
throwaway7312 10y ago
There's a difference between beating depression, which the parent comment is talking about, and being 'over' depression, which is what your comment is talking about. Beating depression requires mastering one's own inner life and changing the mechanics of how one thinks and interprets the world. This really does give you super powers coming out of it. And it makes you essentially depression-proof. Those 2% to 9% of people committing suicide are not people who have beat depression. Getting 'over' depression is what happens when the depressed individual experiences a change in life circumstances or another external or temporary internal event that removes the depression for now. That depression can always come back, and among the people I know who haven't beat depression, it always seems to. They never get the 'super powers' because they never beat it. Most of the highly successful, most gregarious people I know were deeply depressed at one point, beat it, and became expert problem solvers with superhuman capacities for perseverance. You could take their business from them, have them walk in on their spouse cheating on them, and find out their children aren't theirs and they'd be sad for a week or two then get right back on with rebuilding their lives again as soon as they finished deconstructing the problem and mapped out a new path for themselves. Depression almost seems like a gauntlet certain high potential individuals have to pass through. Some of them make it through the gauntlet and get those super powers. Others don't make it through the gauntlet, step out for a breather, then go back in again. Then maybe they make it through that time, or maybe it's back out, then back in again. I have family members who've been sucked into the depression gauntlet repeatedly without ever beating it, and you can tell they have the potential for 'super powers', but never get them.
- hash-set 10y ago
  Wow. I have never heard anything about this before and yet it explains a great deal about my own life.
- rmcfeeley 10y ago
  Thanks for this comment. Extremely thoughtful. Would you elaborate on the "super powers" that you hint at here as being reserved for those who have made it to the Post-Depression state? As a clinically depressed person, I am, in some ways, still very much caught up in the "gauntlet" you describe here. It would be interesting to hear what I can look forward to when I finally.. purchase your online course?
danaliv 10y ago
Can't understand why you're getting downvoted. My experience with depression is like yours. It's easy to romanticize mild depression. It's impossible to romanticize serious depression: an utter inability to feel, which paradoxically results in a sucking black hole of numb despair; not being able to get out of bed, never mind go to work, talk to friends, or engage with the world in any meaningful way; and ultimately suicide. Depression is not "sadness." It's not stoicism. It's a complete disconnection from reality with zero upside.