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If I may add a bit of context: while Station F is indeed a project of Xavier Niel (Free/Illiad/Kima/42...), it is also a project with considerable public suppor

If I may add a bit of context: while Station F is indeed a project of Xavier Niel (Free/Illiad/Kima/42...), it is also a project with considerable public support. Several french regions have their (semi-)publicly funded equivalent of Station F (Lille with Plaine Images & Euratechnologies, Nantes with La Cantine, ...) and while there is a considerable quantity of startups in Paris, there is no local de facto hub. I'd argue that Le Sentier area plays that role, but it's a neighborhood where lots of startup happen to be located. In the early 00s it was dubbed "Silicon Sentier". Plaine Images & Euratechnologies have been built in former industrial complexes with the aim of redynamizing local ecosystem as a whole. Anne Hidalgo, the Paris mayor, hopes to do the same to the XIII arrondissement.

agumonkey 10y ago
This neighborhood had many good bits but no center. La pitié, BNF, Bercy, lots of new business buildings. Maybe this will end up as some sort of cultural core.
VeejayRampay 10y ago
Thanks for that context man. People like to b*tch about taxes all the time, but the thing is, taxes sent me to school and university, it paid for my stays in the hospital, my mail delivery, our internet infrastructure and awesome projects like Station F.
- aantix 10y ago
  But... Why try to get rich if you don't get to keep any of it?
  - ckarmann 10y ago
    Any of it? Even in France, the tax rate is less than 100%. Hyperbole does not serve discussion.
  - welanes 10y ago
    Most of the time wealth is the by-product of pursuing a talent or passion. I'm not sure high taxes would disincentivize somebody from reaching the height of their ambition. Presented with the option "improve performance and you'll receive an extra 100k a year although you'll only see 50k of that" would you: A. plod along with current work-ethic and current salary B. move to where you'd see 80k of that C. Continue to perform and be 50k wealthier France loses the talent of those that choose option B (See: London) but option A seems illogical.
    - user5994461 10y ago
      Wealth is the product of talent * resources (ie. time and capital). France policy are very hostile toward capital. That is a problem when startups rely on raising xx M EUR in cash.
      - ldng 10y ago
        > France policy are very hostile toward capital. This is actually is a lot more subtle. Sure there are heavy taxes about which that some (ideologically interested) people love to complain about. But there are also a lot of public subsidies that those very same people will never publicly acknowledge benefiting from (again pushing an agenda).
        karambahh 10y ago
        The "Wealth Tax" (Impôt sur la fortune) can be cut in half via investment into SMEs. Pro-tip when you raise capital in France: do it early in the fiscal year, as April is the deadline for this tax avoidance scheme ;) There are lots of tax optimisations in the french tax code. The weirdest one has to be investment into "sofica" companies, which are shell companies for movie productions. You have to make sure that the movie will fail to maximise your tax credit. So you have to pick wisely: do not invest in the next Asterix or Luc Besson movie, you'd end up loosing money to the IRS. That's one of the reasons hollywood accounting is also a thing in France. The idea is not to massively undercut the author, but to make sure the investors aren't hit with back taxes!
        10y ago
  - bnegreve 10y ago
    The number of millionaires is actually quite high in France [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire#HNWI_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire#HNWI_population
  - dimino 10y ago
    You can still get rich even with high taxes, and even if you didn't, it turns out that most folks care more about putting meaning into their own lives than they do about money.
ekidd 10y ago
Nantes with La Cantine When I was in Nantes this summer, I kept seeing subtle little details that made me think something interesting was going on. Compagnie La Machine (with its multi-story robotic spiders http://www.lamachine.fr/ http://www.lamachine.fr/) seems to be surrounded by a maker scene, and even perfectly ordinary magazine shops carried Open Silicium (http://www.opensilicium.com/ http://www.opensilicium.com/) a really nice embedded systems magazine that covers advanced hobbyist and professional concerns. This is a lot harder core and more specialized than the Linux Journal, for example, and when I've shown it off to US booksellers specializing in "maker"-related publications, they just about drooled. Combine that with the French startups I saw at La French Touch in New York a couple of years ago, and some of the recent legislative changes the government was supposedly working on, and I kinda wanted to hang around and see what was up. I have a sneaking suspicion that the French have all the raw ingredients for an excellent startup scene, but that funding might still be something of a struggle.
- karambahh 10y ago
  Have a look at what Plaine Images is doing with their Imaginarium, coupled with their incubator & accelerator: http://www.plaine-images.fr/en/services-2/ http://www.plaine-images.fr/en/services-2/ It's located in a former textile factory and combines both openspace/co-working spaces, private offices in varying sizes. It also has a strong focus on creative industries (gaming, VR, audio...). Several companies that have started there have an excellent track record and several world-class leaders are in talks with them. If you mix public subsidies + good space design + integration in the socio-economical fabric + specialization on a vertical, you end up with very high potential and growth. That's exactly what's happening right now at Plaine Images, even though it's not very well known outside of Europe. Funding is not that much of an issue, tbh. As I stated elsewhere in this thread, I raised little, but had I wanted more, London & Berlin are literally next door and many large european VCs are familiar with the french ecosystem. The business angels I chose have exactly that track record (early 90s-00s, create company in France, raise a few hundreds k€ in France, large rounds in the US, IPO on Nasdaq, get rich and become BA/VCs). I'm not going to list the usual "french unicorns" such as Blablacar or Criteo, but see Devialet, a hw "startup": they have closed a 100M$ round with a Korean fund two weeks ago so access to capital definitely exist... By the way, La Cantine unfortunately had a massive fire two weeks ago, so we will have to wait and see if the phenix rise from the literal ashes :'(

agumonkey 10y ago

This neighborhood had many good bits but no center. La pitié, BNF, Bercy, lots of new business buildings. Maybe this will end up as some sort of cultural core.

VeejayRampay 10y ago

Thanks for that context man. People like to b*tch about taxes all the time, but the thing is, taxes sent me to school and university, it paid for my stays in the hospital, my mail delivery, our internet infrastructure and awesome projects like Station F.

aantix 10y ago
But... Why try to get rich if you don't get to keep any of it?
- ckarmann 10y ago
  Any of it? Even in France, the tax rate is less than 100%. Hyperbole does not serve discussion.
- welanes 10y ago
  Most of the time wealth is the by-product of pursuing a talent or passion. I'm not sure high taxes would disincentivize somebody from reaching the height of their ambition. Presented with the option "improve performance and you'll receive an extra 100k a year although you'll only see 50k of that" would you: A. plod along with current work-ethic and current salary B. move to where you'd see 80k of that C. Continue to perform and be 50k wealthier France loses the talent of those that choose option B (See: London) but option A seems illogical.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    Wealth is the product of talent * resources (ie. time and capital). France policy are very hostile toward capital. That is a problem when startups rely on raising xx M EUR in cash.
    - ldng 10y ago
      > France policy are very hostile toward capital. This is actually is a lot more subtle. Sure there are heavy taxes about which that some (ideologically interested) people love to complain about. But there are also a lot of public subsidies that those very same people will never publicly acknowledge benefiting from (again pushing an agenda).
      - karambahh 10y ago
        The "Wealth Tax" (Impôt sur la fortune) can be cut in half via investment into SMEs. Pro-tip when you raise capital in France: do it early in the fiscal year, as April is the deadline for this tax avoidance scheme ;) There are lots of tax optimisations in the french tax code. The weirdest one has to be investment into "sofica" companies, which are shell companies for movie productions. You have to make sure that the movie will fail to maximise your tax credit. So you have to pick wisely: do not invest in the next Asterix or Luc Besson movie, you'd end up loosing money to the IRS. That's one of the reasons hollywood accounting is also a thing in France. The idea is not to massively undercut the author, but to make sure the investors aren't hit with back taxes!
      - 10y ago
- bnegreve 10y ago
  The number of millionaires is actually quite high in France [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire#HNWI_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire#HNWI_population
- dimino 10y ago
  You can still get rich even with high taxes, and even if you didn't, it turns out that most folks care more about putting meaning into their own lives than they do about money.

ekidd 10y ago

Nantes with La Cantine When I was in Nantes this summer, I kept seeing subtle little details that made me think something interesting was going on. Compagnie La Machine (with its multi-story robotic spiders http://www.lamachine.fr/ http://www.lamachine.fr/) seems to be surrounded by a maker scene, and even perfectly ordinary magazine shops carried Open Silicium (http://www.opensilicium.com/ http://www.opensilicium.com/) a really nice embedded systems magazine that covers advanced hobbyist and professional concerns. This is a lot harder core and more specialized than the Linux Journal, for example, and when I've shown it off to US booksellers specializing in "maker"-related publications, they just about drooled. Combine that with the French startups I saw at La French Touch in New York a couple of years ago, and some of the recent legislative changes the government was supposedly working on, and I kinda wanted to hang around and see what was up. I have a sneaking suspicion that the French have all the raw ingredients for an excellent startup scene, but that funding might still be something of a struggle.

karambahh 10y ago
Have a look at what Plaine Images is doing with their Imaginarium, coupled with their incubator & accelerator: http://www.plaine-images.fr/en/services-2/ http://www.plaine-images.fr/en/services-2/ It's located in a former textile factory and combines both openspace/co-working spaces, private offices in varying sizes. It also has a strong focus on creative industries (gaming, VR, audio...). Several companies that have started there have an excellent track record and several world-class leaders are in talks with them. If you mix public subsidies + good space design + integration in the socio-economical fabric + specialization on a vertical, you end up with very high potential and growth. That's exactly what's happening right now at Plaine Images, even though it's not very well known outside of Europe. Funding is not that much of an issue, tbh. As I stated elsewhere in this thread, I raised little, but had I wanted more, London & Berlin are literally next door and many large european VCs are familiar with the french ecosystem. The business angels I chose have exactly that track record (early 90s-00s, create company in France, raise a few hundreds k€ in France, large rounds in the US, IPO on Nasdaq, get rich and become BA/VCs). I'm not going to list the usual "french unicorns" such as Blablacar or Criteo, but see Devialet, a hw "startup": they have closed a 100M$ round with a Korean fund two weeks ago so access to capital definitely exist... By the way, La Cantine unfortunately had a massive fire two weeks ago, so we will have to wait and see if the phenix rise from the literal ashes :'(