4 ms·

The endless joys of the ever-shifting sands of the frontend world. I'm pleased there's movement in trying to make it better, but part of me really, really hopes

by mathw 10y ago

The endless joys of the ever-shifting sands of the frontend world. I'm pleased there's movement in trying to make it better, but part of me really, really hopes it all settles down soon. That something using Bower can be considered old really seems quite astonishing to me.

warent 10y ago
Wtf is npm? Everyone uses Yarn these days. Get with the times
- wiz21c 10y ago
  Still using an open source package manager ? C'm'on...
spraak 10y ago
The benefit is that hopefully from rapid cycling we can settle on tooling that is really good
- regularfry 10y ago
  The risk is that people won't settle on the best for long enough to allow network effects to show its true strengths.
- zepto 10y ago
  It's been decades now - when do you imagine it will settle?
  - spraak 10y ago
    The rapid cycling of JS tooling and frameworks has only been in the past few years really. And ES5 came after many many years of no updates to JS.
    - zepto 10y ago
      You mean the rapid cycling has been accelerating. What has ES5 to do with this? It didn't come out of nowhere - it was being planned for those many years.
      - spraak 10y ago
        It's not rapid cycling until it's rapid, before that it's just a cycle. I thought you were referring to ES5, otherwise I have no idea what you mean - JS tooling wasn't going anywhere very quickly before ~2010
kaoD 10y ago
I'm sick of this lie, mostly parroted by people that haven't touched frontend in their life, or who do frontend but betted too early on technlogy that never got traction. It feels like it's just an excuse to pick on frontend. If nothing new was developed everyone would point out how stagnant JS ecosystem has become. I've been developing JS for years and I've been using NPM for frontend components for... 3 years minimum? Wow, such a quick pace, unbearable. How is it bad that new tools and libraries are being developed? Nobody forces you to use the new shiny toys until they're established (and almost nobody does, unless you can afford the uncertainty). You call it churn, I call it advancing the trade and getting better tools made for free by passionate people. Some of those get established as de facto standards. Most don't. The churn rate is not high unless you count experimental technology. > That something using Bower can be considered old really seems quite astonishing to me. Bower was one of those shiny toys. It's not old: it's just that people used Bower on its infancy and it never got as much traction as NPM did. If someone bets on Bower and then blames churn rate when it gets less traction than competitors... maybe they should stop using the new shiny toys and wait until an established tool emerges?
- spraak 10y ago
  Thank you! But sorry, what is FUD?
  - kaoD 10y ago
    Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Quoting Wikipedia: > FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear. In this case I suspect it's self-inflicted FUD and not intentionally trying to misinform other people, but FUD nonetheless.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

by mathw 10y ago

warent 10y ago

Wtf is npm? Everyone uses Yarn these days. Get with the times

wiz21c 10y ago
Still using an open source package manager ? C'm'on...

spraak 10y ago

The benefit is that hopefully from rapid cycling we can settle on tooling that is really good

regularfry 10y ago
The risk is that people won't settle on the best for long enough to allow network effects to show its true strengths.
zepto 10y ago
It's been decades now - when do you imagine it will settle?
- spraak 10y ago
  The rapid cycling of JS tooling and frameworks has only been in the past few years really. And ES5 came after many many years of no updates to JS.
  - zepto 10y ago
    You mean the rapid cycling has been accelerating. What has ES5 to do with this? It didn't come out of nowhere - it was being planned for those many years.
    - spraak 10y ago
      It's not rapid cycling until it's rapid, before that it's just a cycle. I thought you were referring to ES5, otherwise I have no idea what you mean - JS tooling wasn't going anywhere very quickly before ~2010

kaoD 10y ago

I'm sick of this lie, mostly parroted by people that haven't touched frontend in their life, or who do frontend but betted too early on technlogy that never got traction. It feels like it's just an excuse to pick on frontend. If nothing new was developed everyone would point out how stagnant JS ecosystem has become. I've been developing JS for years and I've been using NPM for frontend components for... 3 years minimum? Wow, such a quick pace, unbearable. How is it bad that new tools and libraries are being developed? Nobody forces you to use the new shiny toys until they're established (and almost nobody does, unless you can afford the uncertainty). You call it churn, I call it advancing the trade and getting better tools made for free by passionate people. Some of those get established as de facto standards. Most don't. The churn rate is not high unless you count experimental technology. > That something using Bower can be considered old really seems quite astonishing to me. Bower was one of those shiny toys. It's not old: it's just that people used Bower on its infancy and it never got as much traction as NPM did. If someone bets on Bower and then blames churn rate when it gets less traction than competitors... maybe they should stop using the new shiny toys and wait until an established tool emerges?

spraak 10y ago
Thank you! But sorry, what is FUD?
- kaoD 10y ago
  Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Quoting Wikipedia: > FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear. In this case I suspect it's self-inflicted FUD and not intentionally trying to misinform other people, but FUD nonetheless.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]