6 ms·

I see the argument of "not enough hours of practice" in some comments. I disagree. That would be true if there was a direct correlation between moderate profici

by nokya 10y ago

I see the argument of "not enough hours of practice" in some comments. I disagree. That would be true if there was a direct correlation between moderate proficiency in computers (e.g.: ability to independently reinstall your machine completely and diagnose which hardware component to replace after a failure). The unmentioned problem here is that people are actively reluctant (this is tested, too) to learn the skills that would let them be more independent. I doubt this is entirely related to the total amount of hours spent at a computer. In some way, computer literacy seems to be a similar scenario than cars: the homo simplex doesn't want to understand how it works, he/she just wants it to work while enjoying the luxury of not needing to understand it while posting duck faces on Instagram. Let's face it, computer illiterates understand less, pay more and end up having lower purchasing power. Considering that this is entirely under their control, I find this quite fair (I have different opinions about Seniors, but that's another discussion). To be honest, I can find only one valid reason for this to be an issue: civil liberties and human rights. I'm intimately and increasingly concerned by how much civil liberties have been taken from citizens in "developed" countries in the recent years, and I am under the impression that this is the direct effect of computer illiteracy spread across all levels of the population. Citizens are being asked to vote on laws relying on technological concepts they don't understand, and which end up in striping them from their rights. That's what computer illiteracy is about and that's what (I think) the article should talk about... :(

thesimpsons1022 10y ago
my father is a professor and has been asking my mom the same questions about microsoft word for the past 20 years, never learning it. he spends a lot of time on it too.
- k__ 10y ago
  I understand that some software really sucks. For exmple word processors, I really hate them with all my heart, but when getting a degree, I had to write much stuff. So I sat down and learned the core functions of Libre Office Writer and it made my life better. Even my profs. were amazed how good my papers looked. Not because they were really good, but because none of my fellow computer science students bothered to learn the software and make them look good.
  - mnw21cam 10y ago
    You wrote a scientific paper in LibreOffice? Not LaTeX?
    - k__ 10y ago
      I thought it would take too long to learn latex. Writer had a nice DSL for math terms, so I had everything I need.
      - mnw21cam 10y ago
        (Yeah, alright, I have written a scientific paper in LibreOffice as well. But it was one that was started by someone else, I just finished it. And I didn't inhale.)
- csense 10y ago
  > has been asking my mom the same questions about microsoft word for the past 20 years That's because the answers change with each new release :)
jonathankoren 10y ago
Wow, there's a lot to unpack there. We went from not being able to schedule a meeting between four people in a calendar app, to lamenting the lack of computer repair skills, to denigrating people as somehow less than human ("homo simplex") because they have better things to do with their lives than to devote them to your hobby, to the rise mass surveillance. There's no shared thread among any of these things, except they all contain a silicon wafer somewhere. They also all contain plastic, but I don't any one lamenting the lack of knowledge about polymer chemistry among the populace. The calendar problem isn't necessarily a "computer skills" problem, as much as it could be simply a lack familiarity (solved by time), UX problem (making it literally not the user's problem). You want to know a secret? I don't know how to use GMail. Seriously. I don't.[0] I had to get someone to come over and show me how to simply reply to an email, because every time I clicked what looked like reply arrow, the damn thing went back to the list. I have no idea how to sort the inbox, even if you can. Perhaps, the most popular email client in the world. I don't know how to use it. Am I illiterate? Sure looks it. Yet, I can send an email using telnet. Personally, given that people find word problems complicated, can't calculate restaurant tips in their head, and are prone to fall into personal bias supporting arguments, I think the failure to schedule a meeting is more of a general problem, than a computer one. You're elevating "computer literacy" as some sort of giant lift in the economic chain. Really? Sure software engineering pays well, but it's also completely unrelated to sending out a calendar invite. If that was the metric, then why aren't secretaries paid $100k? Similarly, you can swap out software engineering, with any other high earning field, say hedge fund managing. Arguably, that's a better field, and you don't have to know how a floating point numbers are represented, nor do you have to send your own calendar invites. Finally, yes, mass surveillance is a real issue, and yes more education about what is being done, and what is possible, and at what scale these things are being might help. It might not as well. These are much more political, legal, and philosophical questions than computing questions. After all, I don't need to understand how carbon and iron bond to understand that ethics of stabbing someone in the throat with a knife. [0] Before anyone chimes in. I don't really care how use GMail. It sucks.
- flukus 10y ago
  I've had the same issue with gmail. The back and reply buttons are nearly identical, the reply one is just a bit curvier. I don't know why google has a reputation for good UI's, most of the ones I've used have varied from decent to awful.

by nokya 10y ago

thesimpsons1022 10y ago

my father is a professor and has been asking my mom the same questions about microsoft word for the past 20 years, never learning it. he spends a lot of time on it too.

k__ 10y ago
I understand that some software really sucks. For exmple word processors, I really hate them with all my heart, but when getting a degree, I had to write much stuff. So I sat down and learned the core functions of Libre Office Writer and it made my life better. Even my profs. were amazed how good my papers looked. Not because they were really good, but because none of my fellow computer science students bothered to learn the software and make them look good.
- mnw21cam 10y ago
  You wrote a scientific paper in LibreOffice? Not LaTeX?
  - k__ 10y ago
    I thought it would take too long to learn latex. Writer had a nice DSL for math terms, so I had everything I need.
    - mnw21cam 10y ago
      (Yeah, alright, I have written a scientific paper in LibreOffice as well. But it was one that was started by someone else, I just finished it. And I didn't inhale.)
csense 10y ago
> has been asking my mom the same questions about microsoft word for the past 20 years That's because the answers change with each new release :)

jonathankoren 10y ago

Wow, there's a lot to unpack there. We went from not being able to schedule a meeting between four people in a calendar app, to lamenting the lack of computer repair skills, to denigrating people as somehow less than human ("homo simplex") because they have better things to do with their lives than to devote them to your hobby, to the rise mass surveillance. There's no shared thread among any of these things, except they all contain a silicon wafer somewhere. They also all contain plastic, but I don't any one lamenting the lack of knowledge about polymer chemistry among the populace. The calendar problem isn't necessarily a "computer skills" problem, as much as it could be simply a lack familiarity (solved by time), UX problem (making it literally not the user's problem). You want to know a secret? I don't know how to use GMail. Seriously. I don't.[0] I had to get someone to come over and show me how to simply reply to an email, because every time I clicked what looked like reply arrow, the damn thing went back to the list. I have no idea how to sort the inbox, even if you can. Perhaps, the most popular email client in the world. I don't know how to use it. Am I illiterate? Sure looks it. Yet, I can send an email using telnet. Personally, given that people find word problems complicated, can't calculate restaurant tips in their head, and are prone to fall into personal bias supporting arguments, I think the failure to schedule a meeting is more of a general problem, than a computer one. You're elevating "computer literacy" as some sort of giant lift in the economic chain. Really? Sure software engineering pays well, but it's also completely unrelated to sending out a calendar invite. If that was the metric, then why aren't secretaries paid $100k? Similarly, you can swap out software engineering, with any other high earning field, say hedge fund managing. Arguably, that's a better field, and you don't have to know how a floating point numbers are represented, nor do you have to send your own calendar invites. Finally, yes, mass surveillance is a real issue, and yes more education about what is being done, and what is possible, and at what scale these things are being might help. It might not as well. These are much more political, legal, and philosophical questions than computing questions. After all, I don't need to understand how carbon and iron bond to understand that ethics of stabbing someone in the throat with a knife. [0] Before anyone chimes in. I don't really care how use GMail. It sucks.

flukus 10y ago
I've had the same issue with gmail. The back and reply buttons are nearly identical, the reply one is just a bit curvier. I don't know why google has a reputation for good UI's, most of the ones I've used have varied from decent to awful.