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>> "...No need to retool for the 2017 Lettuce." These indoor farm outfits have nothing to do with lettuce. There's a reason they're building them in/around NYC

by avn2109 10y ago

>> "...No need to retool for the 2017 Lettuce." These indoor farm outfits have nothing to do with lettuce. There's a reason they're building them in/around NYC, aka in the densest concentration of pot smokers the world has ever seen, far from Humboldt county's fields and Colorado's manual hydroponics. The business model is just to get the automation figured out with some low-value crop, e.g. salad greens, while waiting for the legislature to decriminalize. The day Albany finally comes around to the idea, they'll retool for sticky green weed faster than you can pin up a Bob Marley poster. It'll take them about fifteen minutes after the governor's signature dries to get the first pot plants started. The economics could not possibly work out for lettuce alone.

chillydawg 10y ago
Growing ganja is a very different thing to growing lettuce. It takes much longer, there's a lot more considerations around lighting and temperature and the physical size of the crop is vastly different. Harvesting is a totally different process, too. I'm sure some of the stuff learned doing this would be useful, but why not just start an actual robot ganja farm in Colorado now and get growing?
- avn2109 10y ago
  Because it's not legal in all the states between NY and CO. Crossing state lines opens them up to trouble with the Feds.
Animats 10y ago
Yes, I've wondered about all the interest in lettuce and kale. I'd expect more interest in growing higher-value seasonal crops such as blueberries or strawberries.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Lettuce can be grown at full blast and harvested in a month. For seasonal fruits there has to either be a way to trick the plant into skipping the dormant period or a dormant period. The marijuana thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me, it's not fragile and has relatively high value compared to the cost of shipping.
  - avn2109 10y ago
    It won't be legal in all the states between NY and wherever you grow it. And transporting it across state lines opens you up to interdiction/legal trouble from the Feds. That's why they have to grow it near the consumers.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      Yeah, I overlooked that, good point.
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    The marijuana thing shouldn't make sense, you're right - intensive lettuce growing systems don't translate to hemp well at all. Height, root structure, nutrient needs, schedule, and practically everything else vary and mess up your structure. As other people here have pointed out, they really are growing lettuce. If they wanted to be ready to switch to hemp, they'd be using a closer analogue like tomatoes.
abraae 10y ago
We toured a hydroponic lettuce farm when we stayed in the South Island here in NZ recently. Pretty low tech, staffed by a small cadre of minimum wage people. My first thoughts about this article were just as you say - how can that pay off? Now I get it.
michaelt 10y ago
Do you think this explains the reports of Toshiba [1] Fujitsu and Olympus [2] growing lettuce in clean rooms? I was under the impression that weed legalisation was low on the political agenda in Japan. It might be that these producers expect higher human-labour costs, making automation more profitable - such as due to rising nationalism reducing the supply of cheap migrant labour. [1] http://qz.com/295936/toshibas-high-tech-grow-rooms-are-churning-out-lettuce-that-never-needs-washing/ http://qz.com/295936/toshibas-high-tech-grow-rooms-are-churn... [2] http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/13/national/science-health/fujitsu-harvests-low-potassium-lettuce-grown-plant-clean-room/#.U3N6Uq1dXoh http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/13/national/science...
- rmah 10y ago
  Japan is a different situation. There is very little arable farmland left underutilized in Japan. There are millions of acres of farmland sitting dormant in the USA.
  - rlonstein 10y ago
    > There are millions of acres of farmland sitting dormant in the USA. However in the higher energy cost future the production, processing, and distribution of that farm product to a far away base of consumers is not viable. The various direct and indirect subsidies and availability of relatively cheap fuel, which is itself subsidized, make it possible to get fresh foods to urban consumers. It seems like a smart play to plan for arcologies or reuse of decayed urban cores around food production.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      As I understand it, the whole aim of agriculture is reduced energy per unit output. The reason some US farmland lies dormant is, its slightly less productive per unit effort. Further, any other high-tech food solution (electric boxes that grow lettuce under lights etc) is more energy-expensive. Can't bean letting Mother Nature do all the work, and just driving by later and picking up the food. Also there is a surfeit of farmland (read: food production) in the US. Iowa produces enough calories to feed 2 United States all by itself. The feds pay to leave 10% of Iowa fallow. Not as a soil-conservation effort (though that is a result) but instead to control supply. Which is yards cheaper than trying to support prices. So that's part of it too.
jakewins 10y ago
Lettuce production seems to have very little overlap with growing weed: Lettuce grows to a few inches, racks tooled to the height of lettuce wouldn't fit hemp. Hemp has big root systems, it won't grow in tiny little cup mediums like lettuce will, it needs lots of space, mandating a different hydroponic approach than lettuce does. Tomatoes, specifically determinate tomatoes, expect almost the same nutrient mix as hemp, has the same size root systems and grows to about the same height. Harvesting is also similar. Hence: If they were planning to retool for weed, why are they building manufacturing capability for a completely different kind of production?
thebiglebrewski 10y ago
The devil's lettuce!
SixSigma 10y ago
leans into mic .... wrong
eli_gottlieb 10y ago
I think if they were planning for pot, they'd move to Massachusetts now. Our state legislature is trying to delay implementation, but we did pass the ballot measure legalizing home growth and recreational consumption of marijuana.

by avn2109 10y ago

chillydawg 10y ago

Growing ganja is a very different thing to growing lettuce. It takes much longer, there's a lot more considerations around lighting and temperature and the physical size of the crop is vastly different. Harvesting is a totally different process, too. I'm sure some of the stuff learned doing this would be useful, but why not just start an actual robot ganja farm in Colorado now and get growing?

avn2109 10y ago
Because it's not legal in all the states between NY and CO. Crossing state lines opens them up to trouble with the Feds.

Animats 10y ago

Yes, I've wondered about all the interest in lettuce and kale. I'd expect more interest in growing higher-value seasonal crops such as blueberries or strawberries.

maxerickson 10y ago
Lettuce can be grown at full blast and harvested in a month. For seasonal fruits there has to either be a way to trick the plant into skipping the dormant period or a dormant period. The marijuana thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me, it's not fragile and has relatively high value compared to the cost of shipping.
- avn2109 10y ago
  It won't be legal in all the states between NY and wherever you grow it. And transporting it across state lines opens you up to interdiction/legal trouble from the Feds. That's why they have to grow it near the consumers.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    Yeah, I overlooked that, good point.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  The marijuana thing shouldn't make sense, you're right - intensive lettuce growing systems don't translate to hemp well at all. Height, root structure, nutrient needs, schedule, and practically everything else vary and mess up your structure. As other people here have pointed out, they really are growing lettuce. If they wanted to be ready to switch to hemp, they'd be using a closer analogue like tomatoes.

abraae 10y ago

We toured a hydroponic lettuce farm when we stayed in the South Island here in NZ recently. Pretty low tech, staffed by a small cadre of minimum wage people. My first thoughts about this article were just as you say - how can that pay off? Now I get it.

michaelt 10y ago

Do you think this explains the reports of Toshiba [1] Fujitsu and Olympus [2] growing lettuce in clean rooms? I was under the impression that weed legalisation was low on the political agenda in Japan. It might be that these producers expect higher human-labour costs, making automation more profitable - such as due to rising nationalism reducing the supply of cheap migrant labour. [1] http://qz.com/295936/toshibas-high-tech-grow-rooms-are-churning-out-lettuce-that-never-needs-washing/ http://qz.com/295936/toshibas-high-tech-grow-rooms-are-churn... [2] http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/13/national/science-health/fujitsu-harvests-low-potassium-lettuce-grown-plant-clean-room/#.U3N6Uq1dXoh http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/13/national/science...

rmah 10y ago
Japan is a different situation. There is very little arable farmland left underutilized in Japan. There are millions of acres of farmland sitting dormant in the USA.
- rlonstein 10y ago
  > There are millions of acres of farmland sitting dormant in the USA. However in the higher energy cost future the production, processing, and distribution of that farm product to a far away base of consumers is not viable. The various direct and indirect subsidies and availability of relatively cheap fuel, which is itself subsidized, make it possible to get fresh foods to urban consumers. It seems like a smart play to plan for arcologies or reuse of decayed urban cores around food production.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    As I understand it, the whole aim of agriculture is reduced energy per unit output. The reason some US farmland lies dormant is, its slightly less productive per unit effort. Further, any other high-tech food solution (electric boxes that grow lettuce under lights etc) is more energy-expensive. Can't bean letting Mother Nature do all the work, and just driving by later and picking up the food. Also there is a surfeit of farmland (read: food production) in the US. Iowa produces enough calories to feed 2 United States all by itself. The feds pay to leave 10% of Iowa fallow. Not as a soil-conservation effort (though that is a result) but instead to control supply. Which is yards cheaper than trying to support prices. So that's part of it too.

jakewins 10y ago

Lettuce production seems to have very little overlap with growing weed: Lettuce grows to a few inches, racks tooled to the height of lettuce wouldn't fit hemp. Hemp has big root systems, it won't grow in tiny little cup mediums like lettuce will, it needs lots of space, mandating a different hydroponic approach than lettuce does. Tomatoes, specifically determinate tomatoes, expect almost the same nutrient mix as hemp, has the same size root systems and grows to about the same height. Harvesting is also similar. Hence: If they were planning to retool for weed, why are they building manufacturing capability for a completely different kind of production?

thebiglebrewski 10y ago

The devil's lettuce!

SixSigma 10y ago

leans into mic .... wrong

eli_gottlieb 10y ago

I think if they were planning for pot, they'd move to Massachusetts now. Our state legislature is trying to delay implementation, but we did pass the ballot measure legalizing home growth and recreational consumption of marijuana.