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> Talk is cheap and political discussion is especially cheap. How do you propose to lead constructive discussions around these matters I don't know about 'acti
by bmelton 10y ago
> Talk is cheap and political discussion is especially cheap. How do you propose to lead constructive discussions around these matters
I don't know about 'actionable items', but political conversation isn't any different than other conversations -- civility, the assumption of good faith, and an open mind are more common factors as to whether a discussion is good or bad versus topic.
The problem with political discussion isn't that it's political, it's that America (and possibly elsewhere that I can't speak to) has decided that "my side is good, the other side is bad". This leads to conversations that assume bad faith, and are close-minded, which makes those discussions "bad". You can't fix that with a set of rules, but you can enforce the same rules around those discussions -- people being rude, snarky or dismissive would be subject to censure, while people who are being courteous, informative and civil would not.
In short, I maintain that the problem with political discussions versus other discussions is that we treat them as different than other discussions. At their best, they can be a productive means of informing others to facts they may not have been aware, or elevating one's opinion from a basic understanding to a more nuanced understanding. But the more special we treat politics, the more the regular rules suffer, and blanket policies banning politics foster this special status in which vitriol becomes normalized, regimented and de rigueur.
So long as incivility is normal, the greater our partisan divides will grow.
- chillwaves 10y agoDon't you think your post rings of false equivalency? How do you discuss in "good faith" ideas like white nationalism?
- bmelton 10y agoHow do you discuss in "good faith" ideas like white nationalism? You discuss it the same way you discuss any other idea in good faith: by evaluating the content on its message, not on the presuppositions you might have for its messenger; by evaluating each topic in isolation on its own, and trying to determine whether or not any individual point has merit or not, how much merit it may have, and where it does not have merit, explaining why you consider it meritless; by being open-minded enough to not dismiss individual points because you disagree with the central thesis; by putting forth your best arguments, and letting the stronger argument win the day, unblemished by vitriol; by being civil and courteous to your fellow man because as humans, they're deserving of at least a civil, open minded discussion.
- CmdrSprinkles 10y agoIt is also worth noting that there is a difference between discussing white nationalism itself and discussing the impact of it and if it needs to be curtailed. For example, let's look at Google's Trusted Contacts. For obvious reasons, a lot of HN are very opposed to it. One topic that was brought up was the Google Buzz disaster and how google pre-built the community based on who we had emailed and talked to. Which was very dangerous for people who had an abusive ex. If that were to launch today (and something similar will...), white nationalism becomes a huge problem. All of those bloggers and twitter folk who decide to NOT shove their head in the sand and actually engage and speak up are suddenly going to have their other contacts exposed. The people who have friends who speak against Breitbart are now directly exposed. And that is a pretty big tech AND social issue. And to ignore the problem with a large movement of people who tend to be more armed than their political spectrum counterparts and who have a long history of getting their way through abuse is horrifically negligent. And considering that white nationalist parties/candidates are gaining political office in many western nations, it becomes even more of an issue. Can we discuss political legislature that seems to specifically target tech geared toward helping inner city youths (who tend to be black)? What about a marked tendency for facial recognition and profiling software that applies a color wheel to determine threats to gain funding? All of that is political, all of that is very heavily influenced by understanding that it is white nationalist parties pushing it, and all of that MUST be discussed.
- Chris2048 10y agoHere we go. > friends who speak against Breitbart > people who tend to be more armed > a long history of getting their way through abuse > white nationalist parties/candidates Are you talking about white nationalists, or actually about conservatives/Trump/Breitbart, tarring them as violent and abusive along the way?
- chillwaves 10y agoThere is considerable overlap between the groups. I find your inability to acknowledge that fact toxic and a hurdle to honest dialogue.
- Chris2048 10y agoYou can discuss anything in good faith, but how many white nationalism discussions are there on HN?