4 ms·

> Why discuss a few hundred innocent (and quite a few not so innocent) black people shot by cops when we can instead discuss the tens of thousands of innocent w

> Why discuss a few hundred innocent (and quite a few not so innocent) black people shot by cops when we can instead discuss the tens of thousands of innocent white people harmed by blacks? Three reasons. 1) I pay officers, and they aren't doing what I pay them to do and they aren't improving the things I want improved. 2) We can discuss both. But it's pretty obvious when this presumed black violence is trotted out as an answer to police violence rather than a conversation that just happened to be going on. 3) "Black" isn't a voluntary or revokable status. You don't choose your skin-color, nor can it be revoked when you misbehave. You literally cannot control people of your color. You also can't control other gamers, other men, other women, etc. Whereas "Police" is both voluntary and revokable. They can choose not to be police officers if they're upset with the behavior of other officers, and can revoke the status of bad officers. Even if we agreed with your assertion, black people cannot fix other blacks, officers can fix other officers. > why is police shootings of black men the topic at all? The discussion about police violence was already ongoing, but the police mistreat blacks disproportionally so it's not a bad place to focus. Fix the big leaks before the smaller ones... Are you having trouble getting attention for your police violence complaints that you think this discussion is blocking, because you aren't black? > Also, the levels of black crime are directly relevant to the topic of police shootings of black people. Actually no, blacks suffer even in non-violent areas. The black professor arrested while breaking into his own house... Also, it's just tactically not how it works. When police apprehend anyone they're actually afraid of they stay well away, call backup, bark orders through a bullhorn, and approach only once the person is laying down on the ground with their hands visible. Anytime you see an ongoing situation with an officer less than three steps from the person that officer is not afraid. That's intimidation, not safety, they're going for. In many videos of police thuggery and shootings we see police going out of their way to put themselves in a tactical distance where they will be "forced" to respond by any slight movement. If they were really at all scared they'd be on the other side of their car, radioing for backup.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
None of your three reasons are remotely related to truth or accuracy. That's my point - the racist blog choosing to focus on blacks killing whites is not publishing fake news. They're just journalists with a different criteria for importance than you prefer. And again - I don't disagree with your criteria (1). Remember that a few years ago, the only people talking about the issue were Radly Balko and a few of his libertarian readers (e.g. me). But that doesn't mean that every journalist who had different priorities was publishing fake news. ...the police mistreat blacks disproportionally... This is unclear. Again, read the Scott Alexander blog post I linked to which goes into the gory details.
- EdHominem 10y ago
  You asked "Why discuss [...] black people shot by cops". The reason is because I can fix cop shootings, a little at least. I pay for them, etc. Also, the police are a voluntary grouping and as such, can be fixed. It'd be irrational to try to fix anyone else, even if I agreed that they needed it too, which I don't. Then you ask "why is police shootings of black men the topic at all", as in versus police violence in general. As a non-black victim of police violence myself, I heartily second the notion that it's not limited to a racial issue. But I can clearly see in the videos that the blacks involved in these issues are acting more politely than I would and getting treated far worse. > read the Scott Alexander blog post I linked to which goes into the gory details. Apples and oranges. I have issues with his statistics as well, such as discounting of entire sets of stats that individually fall below a percentage threshold, etc. Also, being involved one of these incidents that my city minimizes, I'm not entirely happy with a statistical dismissal even if it was correct. > None of your three reasons are remotely related to truth or accuracy. No, they are. I'm putting my attention to the topics I can solve, in the areas that are most-in-need of being fixed. I don't care if something worse is happening where I can't see it, I can only prioritize my actions. At that, I'm happy to ride along with the #BLM group to get the broader issue solved - our employees shooting innocent people.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Hardly - we can fix black people committing violence against whites (or even the much larger problems of white on white and black on black violence) by directing the police to focus their attention on areas where this is a problem. The right question to ask - assuming you believe that all lives are equally valuable - is to ask the quantitative question of what policies will save more lives. That's a question to be answered with statistics, not values. If you don't believe all lives are equally valuable, that's a difference between your values and mine. No, they are. I'm putting my attention to the topics I can solve... The fact that you can't solve a problem doesn't mean it's a lie or inaccurate to say that the problem exists. And the fact that you continue to pretend it is is exactly why I'm strongly opposed to these attempts to solve "fake news". It's pretty clear that the real goal is just suppressing information that might be politically inconvenient.

yummyfajitas 10y ago

None of your three reasons are remotely related to truth or accuracy. That's my point - the racist blog choosing to focus on blacks killing whites is not publishing fake news. They're just journalists with a different criteria for importance than you prefer. And again - I don't disagree with your criteria (1). Remember that a few years ago, the only people talking about the issue were Radly Balko and a few of his libertarian readers (e.g. me). But that doesn't mean that every journalist who had different priorities was publishing fake news. ...the police mistreat blacks disproportionally... This is unclear. Again, read the Scott Alexander blog post I linked to which goes into the gory details.

EdHominem 10y ago
You asked "Why discuss [...] black people shot by cops". The reason is because I can fix cop shootings, a little at least. I pay for them, etc. Also, the police are a voluntary grouping and as such, can be fixed. It'd be irrational to try to fix anyone else, even if I agreed that they needed it too, which I don't. Then you ask "why is police shootings of black men the topic at all", as in versus police violence in general. As a non-black victim of police violence myself, I heartily second the notion that it's not limited to a racial issue. But I can clearly see in the videos that the blacks involved in these issues are acting more politely than I would and getting treated far worse. > read the Scott Alexander blog post I linked to which goes into the gory details. Apples and oranges. I have issues with his statistics as well, such as discounting of entire sets of stats that individually fall below a percentage threshold, etc. Also, being involved one of these incidents that my city minimizes, I'm not entirely happy with a statistical dismissal even if it was correct. > None of your three reasons are remotely related to truth or accuracy. No, they are. I'm putting my attention to the topics I can solve, in the areas that are most-in-need of being fixed. I don't care if something worse is happening where I can't see it, I can only prioritize my actions. At that, I'm happy to ride along with the #BLM group to get the broader issue solved - our employees shooting innocent people.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  Hardly - we can fix black people committing violence against whites (or even the much larger problems of white on white and black on black violence) by directing the police to focus their attention on areas where this is a problem. The right question to ask - assuming you believe that all lives are equally valuable - is to ask the quantitative question of what policies will save more lives. That's a question to be answered with statistics, not values. If you don't believe all lives are equally valuable, that's a difference between your values and mine. No, they are. I'm putting my attention to the topics I can solve... The fact that you can't solve a problem doesn't mean it's a lie or inaccurate to say that the problem exists. And the fact that you continue to pretend it is is exactly why I'm strongly opposed to these attempts to solve "fake news". It's pretty clear that the real goal is just suppressing information that might be politically inconvenient.