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>We have a golden period of forty-some days before a new administration comes to power that has shown every intent of using that information to deport people an

by ibejoeb 10y ago

>We have a golden period of forty-some days before a new administration comes to power that has shown every intent of using that information to deport people and create a national Muslim registry. This is why I support a moratorium on politics here. This kind of assumption and hyperbole is really off-putting. I'm happy to debate these topics, but not here. Now, that said, it's going to be a little murky. For example, I want to examine Ed Ou's detention at the US border. What if something breaks about Snowden or Assange? How about net neutrality?

aaronbrethorst 10y ago
The "assumption and hyperbole" you mention is based upon things our president elect has said he will do. I think this is exactly the place to do it as the people who would be involved in its creation are likely here. Where else would be a better place?
- Chris2048 10y ago
  He never said he'd "create a national Muslim registry", (assuming "muslim registry" means "a registry of all muslims); it was just implied that he did. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/nov/24/donald-trumps-comments-database-american-muslims/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/nov/24/... "No, he would not rule out a database on all Muslims. But for now, he wants a database for refugees." And most importantly - it wasn't him that brought up the idea, he was asked this "John F. Kennedy is not a homosexual"-style. The fact that he failed to clarify either way was then reported in ambiguous snippets giving the impression that he had brought this up. Even an insinuation that someone has a connection with an undesirable group apparently makes it legitimate to repeatedly ask them about it. I think such a low-bar to interrogation is not enough; sometime even being repeatedly asked something can give the impression that it might be true (or more likely), "big lie"-style.
ajamesm 10y ago
How is it "assumption and hyperbole" to take statements at face value? The incoming administration is on the record with their intents.
- hueving 10y ago
  When the statements themselves are hyperbole. Look at how many details about the wall have changed. I don't understand why people on the left assume he was lying all of the times he delivered toned down statements and was only telling the truth when at the most extreme.
  - chillwaves 10y ago
    > I don't understand why people on the left assume [that Trump is dangerous and unpredictable and changes his mind more often than a traffic light]. Make sense now?
    - hueving 10y ago
      You just agreed with me. If he's disingenuous there is no reason to believe he will build a list of Muslims from Facebook.
      - CmdrSprinkles 10y ago
        That isn't what was said at all. What we have is a future president (ugh...) who has repeatedly shown himself to change his mind at the drop of a hat, be easily engaged and enraged on social media, and who has a long career (since long before he even considered running or POTUS in the 90s) of racism and misogyny (not to mention admitting to and taking pride in sexual assault...). The fact that we DON'T know what he truly intends to do is terrifying, and that is why people discuss it. We know what he has said he intends to do .We know that some stuff he has backpedaled on, only to come back a few days later. That is exactly why people feel a need to discuss it. And we also know that his vice president and growing cabinet are much more consistently "on message".
        Chris2048 10y ago
        > admitting to and taking pride in sexual assault Care to elaborate? Or is this more second-hand media? > The fact that we DON'T know what he truly intends to do is terrifying Depends if you're happy with the status-quo, or unhappy with it. For some, the idea of things staying the same are terrifying. Incidentally, were you not worried about a Dem war with Russia?
rybosome 10y ago
This is not hyperbole. http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/20/donald-trump-says-hed-absolutely-require-muslims-to-register/ http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/20/donal... > Donald J. Trump, who earlier in the week said he was open to requiring Muslims in the United States to register in a database, said on Thursday night that he “would certainly implement that — absolutely.” Mr. Trump was asked about the issue by an NBC News reporter and pressed on whether all Muslims in the country would be forced to register. “They have to be,” he said. “They have to be.’’ ... Asked later, as he signed autographs, how such a database would be different from Jews having to register in Nazi Germany, Mr. Trump repeatedly said, “You tell me,” until he stopped responding to the question.
- ohpuhleeeze 10y ago
  That quote is from 2015. If everyone held people to what they said a year ago despite them softening on the issue or even changing their mind completely... well then why is Obama so highly regarded by the left?
  - rybosome 10y ago
    > That quote is from 2015. If everyone held people to what they said a year ago despite them softening on the issue or even changing their mind completely... Ok, this is reasonable. There have been some indications that Trump might be softening on the issue. Language alluding to this policy was removed from his campaign website on election night, for instance, and it hasn't really come up since (at least from him). I'm still very concerned that it was said at all, but you can certainly make an argument that this statement doesn't represent the current state of things. > well then why is Obama so highly regarded by the left? You have veered into defensive tribalism. We are not discussing in what regard Trump is held, but rather the likelihood of him implementing a particular policy based on what he has said about it. Whether or not liberals forgave Obama's transgressions is irrelevant to a muslim registry.
  - SerLava 10y ago
    I was hesitant to support dang's (OP's) idea but this is pushing me towards it.
riazrizvi 10y ago
I think since comments made by Trump to NBC and CNN around Nov 20th, it is now unclear whether he wants a muslim registry for domiciled muslims, or a registry for muslims coming from certain nations (according to Fox anyhow: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/20/trump-causes-firestorm-with-muslim-registry-remarks-but-what-did-really-say.html http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/20/trump-causes-fire...)
enraged_camel 10y ago
The so-called "assumption and hyperbole" have historical precedence though. You may want to review the history of 1930s Germany.

by ibejoeb 10y ago

aaronbrethorst 10y ago

The "assumption and hyperbole" you mention is based upon things our president elect has said he will do. I think this is exactly the place to do it as the people who would be involved in its creation are likely here. Where else would be a better place?

Chris2048 10y ago
He never said he'd "create a national Muslim registry", (assuming "muslim registry" means "a registry of all muslims); it was just implied that he did. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/nov/24/donald-trumps-comments-database-american-muslims/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/nov/24/... "No, he would not rule out a database on all Muslims. But for now, he wants a database for refugees." And most importantly - it wasn't him that brought up the idea, he was asked this "John F. Kennedy is not a homosexual"-style. The fact that he failed to clarify either way was then reported in ambiguous snippets giving the impression that he had brought this up. Even an insinuation that someone has a connection with an undesirable group apparently makes it legitimate to repeatedly ask them about it. I think such a low-bar to interrogation is not enough; sometime even being repeatedly asked something can give the impression that it might be true (or more likely), "big lie"-style.

ajamesm 10y ago

How is it "assumption and hyperbole" to take statements at face value? The incoming administration is on the record with their intents.

hueving 10y ago
When the statements themselves are hyperbole. Look at how many details about the wall have changed. I don't understand why people on the left assume he was lying all of the times he delivered toned down statements and was only telling the truth when at the most extreme.
- chillwaves 10y ago
  > I don't understand why people on the left assume [that Trump is dangerous and unpredictable and changes his mind more often than a traffic light]. Make sense now?
  - hueving 10y ago
    You just agreed with me. If he's disingenuous there is no reason to believe he will build a list of Muslims from Facebook.
    - CmdrSprinkles 10y ago
      That isn't what was said at all. What we have is a future president (ugh...) who has repeatedly shown himself to change his mind at the drop of a hat, be easily engaged and enraged on social media, and who has a long career (since long before he even considered running or POTUS in the 90s) of racism and misogyny (not to mention admitting to and taking pride in sexual assault...). The fact that we DON'T know what he truly intends to do is terrifying, and that is why people discuss it. We know what he has said he intends to do .We know that some stuff he has backpedaled on, only to come back a few days later. That is exactly why people feel a need to discuss it. And we also know that his vice president and growing cabinet are much more consistently "on message".
      - Chris2048 10y ago
        > admitting to and taking pride in sexual assault Care to elaborate? Or is this more second-hand media? > The fact that we DON'T know what he truly intends to do is terrifying Depends if you're happy with the status-quo, or unhappy with it. For some, the idea of things staying the same are terrifying. Incidentally, were you not worried about a Dem war with Russia?

rybosome 10y ago

This is not hyperbole. http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/20/donald-trump-says-hed-absolutely-require-muslims-to-register/ http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/11/20/donal... > Donald J. Trump, who earlier in the week said he was open to requiring Muslims in the United States to register in a database, said on Thursday night that he “would certainly implement that — absolutely.” Mr. Trump was asked about the issue by an NBC News reporter and pressed on whether all Muslims in the country would be forced to register. “They have to be,” he said. “They have to be.’’ ... Asked later, as he signed autographs, how such a database would be different from Jews having to register in Nazi Germany, Mr. Trump repeatedly said, “You tell me,” until he stopped responding to the question.

ohpuhleeeze 10y ago
That quote is from 2015. If everyone held people to what they said a year ago despite them softening on the issue or even changing their mind completely... well then why is Obama so highly regarded by the left?
- rybosome 10y ago
  > That quote is from 2015. If everyone held people to what they said a year ago despite them softening on the issue or even changing their mind completely... Ok, this is reasonable. There have been some indications that Trump might be softening on the issue. Language alluding to this policy was removed from his campaign website on election night, for instance, and it hasn't really come up since (at least from him). I'm still very concerned that it was said at all, but you can certainly make an argument that this statement doesn't represent the current state of things. > well then why is Obama so highly regarded by the left? You have veered into defensive tribalism. We are not discussing in what regard Trump is held, but rather the likelihood of him implementing a particular policy based on what he has said about it. Whether or not liberals forgave Obama's transgressions is irrelevant to a muslim registry.
- SerLava 10y ago
  I was hesitant to support dang's (OP's) idea but this is pushing me towards it.

riazrizvi 10y ago

I think since comments made by Trump to NBC and CNN around Nov 20th, it is now unclear whether he wants a muslim registry for domiciled muslims, or a registry for muslims coming from certain nations (according to Fox anyhow: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/20/trump-causes-firestorm-with-muslim-registry-remarks-but-what-did-really-say.html http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/20/trump-causes-fire...)

enraged_camel 10y ago

The so-called "assumption and hyperbole" have historical precedence though. You may want to review the history of 1930s Germany.