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> Mark my words. Beijing is the biggest competitor to Silicon Valley in the coming years. Been hearing that since 2009. Any day now. I'll believe it when Peter

> Mark my words. Beijing is the biggest competitor to Silicon Valley in the coming years. Been hearing that since 2009. Any day now. I'll believe it when Peter Thiel moves to Beijing along with other Silicon Valley VC. Obviously that isn't happening and why, the richest Chinese citizens are moving to SV permanently. Why would they permanently move all of their assets if they believed in China? There's an important distinction between imitation and innovation. What Chinese product have reached the scale American grown SV companies outside of their own borders where they won't have the same level of protection from their own government? I can't think of any. I don't know any white people using WeChat or Baidu because FB messenger and Google isn't good enough. It doesn't help the rest of the world speaks English while Chinese pumpers insist that eventually everyone will speak and write Mandarin, which is syntaxtually and linguistically a lot harder to learn and use. I'm certain Japanese thought the whole world would eventually learn Japanese...in 1989. It's hard to have an objective debate when the answer to everything is because China is big.

kmicklas 10y ago
> It doesn't help the rest of the world speaks English while Chinese pumpers insist that eventually everyone will speak and write Mandarin, which is syntaxtually and linguistically a lot harder to learn and use. I'm certain Japanese thought the whole world would eventually learn Japanese...in 1989. Okay SV has its advantages but this is just American imperialism at its finest.
- brilliantcode 10y ago
  British imperialism. America inherited the groundwork laid out by the British but being a former colony themselves, it's uncomfortable with the idea. American imperialism is such an overused propaganda term from the Soviet-friendly bloc., it's actually quite laughable. The more accurate term is American economic hegemony. The rest of the world relies on American institutions that ensure trade between countries flourish because they have long understood that without economic activity and dependence, it has always led to conflicts. Without physical force you cannot act as the single source of truth for everybody trading on your platform. This is why America has the largest and most advanced military in history. They understand the fundamental coupling of diplomatic projection and enforcement of their economic policies. Is America perfect? No. Are they good in all intentions? No. But it works. There has been no world war 1 or 2 scale conflicts for quite some time now. Countries are now tightly ruled by multi-national corporations with backing by central bank that makes compromises and wins concessions according to American policy. It's very expensive and tough to offer an alternative, although China seems to have the right idea by starting AIIB etc., but everyone is wary about the strings that come attached with it, as they've inevitably always has been from American monetary foreign policies. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't. China is a big unknown for the rest of the world. Americans have been around and will be around for this century, unless China successfully manages to usurp their military power, which doesn't seem possible since their military complexes haven't even matched those of the Russia. For instance, producing a stealth fighter from stolen blueprints from Lockheed Martin but not able to produce a jet engine and relying on Russia (who are also wary of having their tech stolen) who sells them expensive crap. If America is an empire, great, because I shudder to think what a Russia or/and China hegemony is going to look like.
nabla9 10y ago
>Obviously that isn't happening Take a look at Kleiner Perkins. KPCB has offices in Menlo Park, San Francisco, Beijing and Shanghai http://www.kpcb.com/china http://www.kpcb.com/china http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceibs/2014/09/19/chinas-many-types-of-innovation/#66067ad96fd0 http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceibs/2014/09/19/chinas-many-typ...
- brilliantcode 10y ago
  that's just one branch you listed. Obviously, KPCB isn't relocating permanently to Beijing or Shanghai. Clearly, KPCB's millionaire VC's aren't buying a high rise penthouse above Beijing's cloud of pollution, and neither are China's rich, and neither are their offsprings attending Beijing university but prestigous US institutions.
echevil 10y ago
It doesn't make a difference whether or not Peter Thiel would want to move to China or not. There are tons of VCs in China and also government funding. It also has an economy that can sustain itself. For sure there are many Chinese moving to SV, but certainly less willing to do so than compared with a decades ago, and more common that people already in SV moves back. It doesn't mean immigration to US would be less though, when the best people don't want to come, there will still be tons of other people that do.
- brilliantcode 10y ago
  It makes all the difference. Major player moving away from America to China such as Peter Thiel or any other big well known VC's is significant because it suggests that Chinese market conditions are more favorable or a sizable opportunity and favorable living conditions are present in China to convince high net worth individuals to shift their life style and culture completely. It's an entirely different situation for those who are familiar with Chinese culture and speak the language going back to China to do business. It's another for non-Chinese individuals of high net-worth to uproot their American life for a foreign one. If some remote time in the future, when Trump's offsprings send their offspring to Beijing University instead of Harvard, then we would know the tide has turned-this new China offers more or less the same benefits and comfort America provides to it's elite. Obviously, it's a one way street right now, in our direction.
  - echevil 10y ago
    Well I won't be surprised at all if VC's like Peter Thiel invests primarily in China someday if he finds it more profitable, but that would have no implications on that he also wants to shift his lifestyle or culture in anyway. It'll just be one more foreign largely unknown to China making some money there. Masayoshi Son made lots of fortune investing in Alibaba in its early days, and Warren Buffett has long known to be investing in China. It's not unprecedented. Chinese companies like Baidu and Alibaba are also investing a lot in SV companies. Neither of these activities really have further implications.
    - 10y ago

kmicklas 10y ago

> It doesn't help the rest of the world speaks English while Chinese pumpers insist that eventually everyone will speak and write Mandarin, which is syntaxtually and linguistically a lot harder to learn and use. I'm certain Japanese thought the whole world would eventually learn Japanese...in 1989. Okay SV has its advantages but this is just American imperialism at its finest.

brilliantcode 10y ago
British imperialism. America inherited the groundwork laid out by the British but being a former colony themselves, it's uncomfortable with the idea. American imperialism is such an overused propaganda term from the Soviet-friendly bloc., it's actually quite laughable. The more accurate term is American economic hegemony. The rest of the world relies on American institutions that ensure trade between countries flourish because they have long understood that without economic activity and dependence, it has always led to conflicts. Without physical force you cannot act as the single source of truth for everybody trading on your platform. This is why America has the largest and most advanced military in history. They understand the fundamental coupling of diplomatic projection and enforcement of their economic policies. Is America perfect? No. Are they good in all intentions? No. But it works. There has been no world war 1 or 2 scale conflicts for quite some time now. Countries are now tightly ruled by multi-national corporations with backing by central bank that makes compromises and wins concessions according to American policy. It's very expensive and tough to offer an alternative, although China seems to have the right idea by starting AIIB etc., but everyone is wary about the strings that come attached with it, as they've inevitably always has been from American monetary foreign policies. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't. China is a big unknown for the rest of the world. Americans have been around and will be around for this century, unless China successfully manages to usurp their military power, which doesn't seem possible since their military complexes haven't even matched those of the Russia. For instance, producing a stealth fighter from stolen blueprints from Lockheed Martin but not able to produce a jet engine and relying on Russia (who are also wary of having their tech stolen) who sells them expensive crap. If America is an empire, great, because I shudder to think what a Russia or/and China hegemony is going to look like.

nabla9 10y ago

>Obviously that isn't happening Take a look at Kleiner Perkins. KPCB has offices in Menlo Park, San Francisco, Beijing and Shanghai http://www.kpcb.com/china http://www.kpcb.com/china http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceibs/2014/09/19/chinas-many-types-of-innovation/#66067ad96fd0 http://www.forbes.com/sites/ceibs/2014/09/19/chinas-many-typ...

brilliantcode 10y ago
that's just one branch you listed. Obviously, KPCB isn't relocating permanently to Beijing or Shanghai. Clearly, KPCB's millionaire VC's aren't buying a high rise penthouse above Beijing's cloud of pollution, and neither are China's rich, and neither are their offsprings attending Beijing university but prestigous US institutions.

echevil 10y ago

It doesn't make a difference whether or not Peter Thiel would want to move to China or not. There are tons of VCs in China and also government funding. It also has an economy that can sustain itself. For sure there are many Chinese moving to SV, but certainly less willing to do so than compared with a decades ago, and more common that people already in SV moves back. It doesn't mean immigration to US would be less though, when the best people don't want to come, there will still be tons of other people that do.

brilliantcode 10y ago
It makes all the difference. Major player moving away from America to China such as Peter Thiel or any other big well known VC's is significant because it suggests that Chinese market conditions are more favorable or a sizable opportunity and favorable living conditions are present in China to convince high net worth individuals to shift their life style and culture completely. It's an entirely different situation for those who are familiar with Chinese culture and speak the language going back to China to do business. It's another for non-Chinese individuals of high net-worth to uproot their American life for a foreign one. If some remote time in the future, when Trump's offsprings send their offspring to Beijing University instead of Harvard, then we would know the tide has turned-this new China offers more or less the same benefits and comfort America provides to it's elite. Obviously, it's a one way street right now, in our direction.
- echevil 10y ago
  Well I won't be surprised at all if VC's like Peter Thiel invests primarily in China someday if he finds it more profitable, but that would have no implications on that he also wants to shift his lifestyle or culture in anyway. It'll just be one more foreign largely unknown to China making some money there. Masayoshi Son made lots of fortune investing in Alibaba in its early days, and Warren Buffett has long known to be investing in China. It's not unprecedented. Chinese companies like Baidu and Alibaba are also investing a lot in SV companies. Neither of these activities really have further implications.
  - 10y ago