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NASA Images of Oil Slick
- gizmo 17y agoThe "More images" link gives additional detail and some basic annotations: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/event.php?id=43733 http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/event.php?id...
- alt219 17y agoIronic that at the same time a fossil fuel disaster of this scope is occurring, there are folks in Massachusetts still fighting to prevent offshore wind turbines because of concerns over the ecological impact.
- eru 17y agoThat's the power of the status quo.
- nkh 17y agoIn light of this disaster, I hope we can have a more reasoned debate on the floor of congress than "Drill Baby Drill".
- ams6110 17y agoFor the next few decades at least, there is no realistic replacement for oil. We need to understand why the safeguards that should have prevented this didn't work, and like with every disaster learn how to do it better the next time.
- chez17 17y agoActually there are plenty of realistic replacements for oil, the issue is more about lobbying and PR than anything else. IF we as Americans wanted to invest in things other than the military, it wouldn't be that hard to get things moving withing a decade. What if we spent $800 billion a year on implementing solar technology? Obviously that's an overstatement but the point stands. The oil companies have payed hundreds of millions of dollars to lobby congress over the years to keep their dominance in the energy market. I'm not naively suggesting we could go solar tomorrow, but I think it's amazing when people so blindly accept the status quo. This is a willpower issue, not a technological one.
- Jach 17y agoThe OP might be referring to the necessity of oil in fabricating all sorts of things, a main focus being plastic and transporting all our Stuff worldwide. But with respect to simple energy, I agree it's a matter of motivation and diversion of funding that keeps us from utilizing solar, wind, etc. energy efficiently.
- ams6110 17y agoI'm not suggesting that we should not pursue nuclear, wind, solar, or other sources of energy. But even building out a nuclear electric generating capacity sufficient to replace our current oil needs would take decades. Wind and solar have theoretical potential but are certainly far from proven on that scale. And not without environmental impact of their own. In the meantime, we need oil. We should understand what went wrong here, and try to prevent it from happening again.
- sliverstorm 17y agoActually, this reminds me of another reason to stop using oil as energy. We use oil for many things that haven't been replaced yet- plastics, synthetics, and so on. Logically, the best course of action would be to switch energy sources as soon as feasible to preserve as much oil as possible for such fabrication, to give us time to find a replacement for that as well. Or, buy us time to figure out a good way to recycle 100% of plastics.
- TNO 17y agoAnd why is it that the word nuclear never comes up?
- Zev 17y agoNimbyism. People want it. Just not near them. Near someone else is fine. The word "nuclear" has too many negative connotations for it to be near them. A perfect example of this is the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant on Long Island in the 70's. LILCO (local power company/monopoly) spent around $6 billion building a nuclear power plant that could generate 820MW of power on the edge of the Long Island Sound. And then decommissioned the plant without so much as generating any commercial electricity. Why? NY Governor Mario Cuomo refused to approve any evacuation plans. Reason for that? To prevent the plant from opening due to public pressure after Three Mile Island and Chernobyl. Result of all this? $6 billion in building costs passed off from LILCO to the public. And instead of generating its own power, Long Island had to lay out a 330MW submarine power cable to obtain extra power from Connecticut after that big blackout a few years back. And a 100MW Gas Turbine plant was built on the site instead. Also after the blackout. Oh. And can't forget about the 50 kilowatts of power generated by the two 100ft wind turbines were built. Really.
- melling 17y agoThis is the attitude many have had for decades. We had a recent debate about drilling in Alaska and many said "things are different now, and the ecological impact would be small." We don't need to drill in these places. We aren't going to run out of our current sources for decades. In time prices are going to rise and people will be forced to drive smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles, but it is about time.
- anigbrowl 17y agoTrue, and nor can we can conserve our way out of the problem. I'm not opposed to offshore drilling - we can apply lessons from this tragedy to future projects. but I do think that partial improvements have great potential when considered in aggregate. wind is constantly improving, the energy itself is free, and capital costs are falling to be competitive with those of fossil fuel installations. The same is true of solar. I'm strongly in favor of adding more nuclear power too - both for its large generation capability, and because the US badly needs to recover erstwhile technological and industrial lead in this area. South Korea recently snatched a big contract to build a nuclear station in the Middle East, and it's a depressing fact that the world's only steel plant capable of manufacturing the large single-unit containment chambers for a reactor is in Japan.
- crocowhile 17y agoAmerican have to learn to consume less. Otherwise they are fucked anyway (That goes for oil, food and pretty much everything else). see: http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/reports_and_publications/statistical_energy_review_2008/STAGING/local_assets/charts/oil_map_oil_consumption_per_capita_560.gif http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_u...
- jacquesm 17y agoSame here. I used to be a big supporter of the local green party but since they've gone against windmills due to the 'visual pollution' I've turned away from them. They're now effectively causing the deployment of more nuclear power in the mid to long term. Meanwhile the Germans have outdone the rest of the world in both deployment of solar and wind power. Wind power is there now on average 6.5% of all energy produced, in Sachsen-Anhalt (sp?) it is over 40%! The sad thing about this oil spill is that is is a double whammy, not only ecologically is it a disaster of enormous magnitude, it also hits the region that is still recovering from the hurricane disaster only a few years ago.
- boucher 17y agoLike every good liberal, I'm not crazy about the idea of nuclear power, but from an objective standpoint it's relatively safe and it's incredibly clean compared to just about every other viable alternative (at least in the short term). Of course, if we had fusion we could easily solve this problem, but that's a good 40 years away.
- Jach 17y agoJust curious, but where did you get the 40 number from?
- SandB0x 17y agoThe joke is that it's always 40 or 50 years away. According to the plan for the ITER project at least, the first fusion plant should arrive mid century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
- lisper 17y ago> Like every good liberal, I'm not crazy about the idea of nuclear power Pardon me, but I'm a liberal and I support nuclear power.
- sliverstorm 17y ago
- what 17y agoAre there actually ecological impacts from offshore wind turbines? From what I've read, they rarely hit birds. Bats are another story, but I don't think there are too many bats flying around offshore. On a side note, there's not much potential for wind turbines in most places, the wind just isn't strong enough: http://www.nrel.gov/gis/images/map_wind_national_lo-res.jpg http://www.nrel.gov/gis/images/map_wind_national_lo-res.jpg http://www.nrel.gov/gis/images/map_wind_national_hi-res.jpg http://www.nrel.gov/gis/images/map_wind_national_hi-res.jpg
- jacquesm 17y agoIf you put up a building with a bunch of windows birds will fly in to them and occasionally get killed, so yes, windmills will kill birds, but: Windmills are portrayed as 'bird slaughterhouses', the reality is that while bird killings do occur they're nowhere near as frequent as the FUD would have you believe. If it were the blades would be dripping blood, and a good place to shop for dinner would be at the foot of a windmill tower. I've had a 5 meter (15') very fast running (600 RPM) mill up for well over a year and not a single dead or injured bird was found near it. Big windmills rotate a lot slower (even if the tip speeds are roughly identical) so are easier to spot as obstacles, the small mills turn so fast the blades are visible only as a blurry disc. As for the side note, that's 30% of the total landmass of the continental united states usable, that's not 'not much potential', that's enormous potential.
- what 17y agoWikipedia claims an average power consumption of ~12kW per person in the US (but it's marked as needing a citation). Assuming a wind power density rating of good (500W/sq m), you would need to harness all of the energy in a 24sq m area per person. There are >300M people in the US. Plastering turbines over that 30% of the landmass would serve only half the population. (Note: I'm no expert and maybe there is some glaring oversight in my quick calculation.)
- jacquesm 17y ago12kW is not a power consumption but a momentary rate, power consumption per person is rated in KWh per unit of time, or in oil equivalents, about 8 tons of oil per US citizen per year. Also, wind power is not delivered in cross section on a surface parallel to the ground but on one at a right angle to the ground. There are other forms of renewables besides wind, such as hydroelectric dams, geothermal power and solar. A combination of those would be called for anyway. And since it is much cheaper to save a Watt-hour than it is to make one conservation is where it all begins, currently the US uses about double the amount of energy per person compared to the rest of the developed world. I'm fairly sure the US could increase its 7% in renewables to a much more significant fraction without any breakthroughs in technology, say up to 20% or so. That alone would be a major relief. Right now there are iirc about 35GW of installed power in wind turbines in the US, that's about 25,000 turbines. I've been out of the wind energy scene for 5 years now, I was mostly interested in the smaller scale anyway, but there is a surprisingly large amount of energy in wind power and we are using only a very small fraction of it. Keep in mind too that the total energy consumption of a country is used to power lots of different stuff, transportation is going to be the hardest to convert, but anything that runs off the grid is fair game for being powered by renewables, and in all those per-capita energy uses all those different categories are lumped together.
- edj 17y agoIt's been approved, so the fight is nearly over. Of course, the not-in-my-backyard types will appeal, but, according to news outlets, will probably lose the appeal.
- _pius 17y agoThis oil slick is larger than the state of West Virginia. "Drill baby drill," indeed.
- Groxx 17y agoHow do you figure? On Friday, it was listed as being 3,850 square miles[1]. West Virginia has an area of 24,230 square miles[2]. [1] http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/01/gulf-oil-slick-triples-size-rough-seas-thwart-cleanup/ http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/01/gulf-oil-slick-triples-... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia
- anigbrowl 17y agoCorrect - but it does appear to be growing significantly - presumably the outrush is further damaging the pipeline. As it will keep leaking until pressure can be relieved, unlike the necessarily limited spillage from a tanker ship, it wouldn't surprise me if the WV comparison become true by Monday :-/ This is an epic environmental disaster. A similar marine rig spill in Australia^ last year took two months to alleviate by drilling a relief well and pumping mud into it; as with all drilling, several attempts are usually necessary to hit a suitably high-pressure part of the field. And the largest estimate for the output of the Montara spill was only 2000 barrels/day; this one is thought to be leaking between 3-5000b/d (1 barrel/~40 gallons). And that spill was considerably farther from shore, with a continental shelf limiting the amount of oil that reached south-east Indonesia. The Mississippi Delta, on the other hand...I don't like to think about the damage. ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montara_oil_spill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montara_oil_spill
- Groxx 17y agoDefinitely not disagreeing on the epic, just on scale :) And didn't know most of that, thanks for the info (haven't followed this spill very closely).
- _pius 17y agoApologies, I heard that claim on the news in passing ... perhaps it was a projection and I missed that bit.
- physcab 17y agoLet's hope that because this is Hurricane Oil Slick instead of Hurricane Katrina, the cleanup at the Gulf will take less than the projected 20 years (of Katrina that is). The residents at the Gulf sure don't get a break from natural and man-made disasters.
- stretchwithme 17y agoAccording to the article, the leak didn't develop until 2 days after the explosion. The rig didn't sink immediately, but when it did, the pipe was damaged and the oil began leaking. Is it possible that the pipe could have been detached from the platform and this leak prevented? Or can future designs have this capability? It seems like there was time to act to prevent this from happening. And even if there weren't, perhaps future designs can be built to detach safely when an explosion has occurred. For example, there are doubled lined tankers, why not a pipe within a pipe? One highly flexible not very good at maintaining pressure for pumping to handle accidents, but surrounding one that is optimized for normal operation. Valves that automatically shut off when a pipeline's management system can no longer sense parts of the pipeline would also be good. I realize that I do not understand the physics of how these systems work and welcome explanations of it. But certainly there is room for innovation in this area, especially considering the high costs of these disasters.
- spuz 17y agoThe pipe has a valve at its base called the blow-out preventer which is supposed to seal off the flow entirely. At the moment, this doesn't appear to have been fully closed again probably due to the damage caused by the sinking platform. I'm sure there will be lessons learnt from this incident. More info here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8651333.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8651333.stm
- mkramlich 17y agohopefully this kills the plan to expand offshore oil drilling along the US coast.
- MikeCapone 17y agoApparently a "pungent" oil smell has enveloped New Orleans. One of the guys quoted is saying that his "nose was burning" after walking his dog. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/04/katrina-of-smell-new-orleans-oil-spill-bp-bad-smell.php http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/04/katrina-of-smell-new...
- jackfoxy 17y agoNote it's big enough to display pronounced counter-clockwise rotation.