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I bought a home last year, and each realtor I talked to brought up how terrible Zillow was before I ever mentioned it. If you look at the WaPo article all the

I bought a home last year, and each realtor I talked to brought up how terrible Zillow was before I ever mentioned it. If you look at the WaPo article all the comments are by other realtors, so I'd take those comments with a grain of salt. Oddly, my mortgage guy never looked at Zillow (that I saw) for figuring out values, so shrug. I'm sure the data is inaccurate, but it's somewhere to start the conversation and let people feel like they have some power in the process of buying and selling homes. And as people like to say about Uber, realtors are welcome to make a competing site that's as free and easy to use.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
No one takes a Zestimate seriously in real estate (not realtors, not banks), so there's no need to create a free competitor. Financing still lives and dies by the professional appriasal; as long as banks prefer that, Zillow has zero pull.
- drewbuschhorn 10y ago
  Unfortunately I wasn't able to afford to have a professional appraisal done for every house my realtor showed me. I'm glad you were in a different position.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    Comparables are what a Zestimate is without the BS "special sauce" that Zillow makes you think exists. Comparables are free, and based on existing property market data (typically sold similar properties looking back a certain period of time). https://www.biggerpockets.com/rei/real-estate-comps-house-value/ https://www.biggerpockets.com/rei/real-estate-comps-house-va... Yet again the tech community believing a problem exists to be solved that has already been solved. > In most markets comparables are acquired through an MLS database, and access to MLS is usually not free. This is true; you need to pay for access to the data source (no different than having to pay for access to equities market data). Redfin succeeds at this because they're a brokerage that happens to be a tech company, unlike Zillow who tries to just pay for feeds (that usually have stale data).
    - ensignavenger 10y ago
      In most markets comparables are acquired through an MLS database, and access to MLS is usually not free. You can hire or become friends with a real estate professional that pays for access to MLS (or become one yourself). But before sites like Zillow, there wasn't anything like it easily available to the average person.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        > But before sites like Zillow, there wasn't anything like it easily available to the average person. Zillow unfortunately doesn't help though, as no one takes the value seriously (except perhaps uneducated consumers entering the real estate market). Bad data is worse than no data.
      - yoloswagins 10y ago
        Or they can be acquired via county assessor data, for free, from the court house. From the county assessor, you'll get sold price, deed type, beds/baths, and high level sundry information.
        toomuchtodo 10y ago
        This works for historical data analysis, but falls over flat for trying to ascertain asset prices in markets, due to how much more quickly the MLS data is updated compared to public records (although, to Redfin's credit, they provide both the MLS record and public record for property events for completeness). Some properties are only on the market for hours/days; you'd never have a chance as a market participant if you only relied on stale public records.
        ensignavenger 10y ago
        Redfin is indeed awesome, but they are only available in select markets where they have a brokerage.
        10y ago
  - ensignavenger 10y ago
    You usually do a professional appraisal after you have a house under contract, to verify that it is worth what you were willing to pay for it- this is usually done to protect the bank... though in many cases it may protect you as well, that (protecting you) is not the appraisers job. (At least, in most cases).
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      When I bought my house a year ago the bank sent someone out to appraise it.
    - bertjk 10y ago
      This is correct; you don't do an appraisal before getting a house, you get an appraisal before getting a mortgage. Typically you also get reappraised every time you refinance, and often the bank pays for it.
    - hnal943 10y ago
      Well, yeah. Does anyone need an appraiser to tell them how much the house is worth? Don't you look at what is available and negotiate the price accordingly?
      - ensignavenger 10y ago
        Banks are the biggest customers of appraisers. In most cases, they require an appraisal before they will lend on a property. As far as what you say- negotiating- yes, most buyers don't get appraisals done as part of the negotiating process. Some buyers do, however, get an appraisal to give them an idea what to ask for. Especially if their home is especially unique (and many people think their home is special, even when it isn't... but that is a whole 'nother ball of wax! :)
  - jsjohnst 10y ago
    Why would you do an appraisal for every house you looked at? If you aren't seriously interested in it, what's the point in knowing what it's worth? This might not be the best analogy, but when looking for a wedding attire, do you walk into a store and look at the sticker price of every tux/suit/gown on the rack and then decide which to buy (especially without price comparing other places)?
coredog64 10y ago
> each realtor I talked to brought up how terrible Zillow was before I ever mentioned it So people who take percentage of the deal disparaged a tool that would net them less money...quelle surprise.
gedy 10y ago
I found and bought a house through Zillow and the selling agents were really irritated by this, and in many cases would ignore the Zillow agent (who was great). I think a lot of this is the fear of competition and the threat to their bottom line
achileas 10y ago
There are competitors that work more closely with realtors and also competitors that compete with just the zestimate, such as Smartzip.
joeax 10y ago
My bro-in-law became a real estate agent a couple years ago. Recently we were discussing Zillow, and he went into a tirade about how terrible it is. I just mentioned that it's a good tool to gauge the price trends of my neighborhood, but he began countering with canned, carefully scripted responses that sounded like indoctrination from his broker/employer. I just sighed, before the topic turned to how important it is to pay the full 6% when listing your house. The real estate industry is one of the most protectionist industries out there, and any threat of disruption, no matter how minor, is met by an army of vitriol.
- hnal943 10y ago
  What's funny is that Zillow's real business is selling advertising to realtors. The idea that they are out to get realtors is ridiculous.
- shostack 10y ago
  What were the arguments for the 6%? There is a broker in the Bay Area who advertisers that they take half that but the complaints against them see to point to the fact that you'll only get offers from other affiliated agents, and many agents won't share the listing with clients if they can avoid it because they want their full commission. I'm the Bay Area I feel like a seller's agent is grossly overpaid for what is often a weekend of open house showings and then fending off multiple above list price zero contingency offers.
  - joeax 10y ago
    I've sold houses using discounted brokers and he hates that. He said that buyer agents will dissuade buyers from looking at houses offering less than "standard 3%" to the listing agent (another protectionist tactic). I countered that I don't care. In this day and age buyers are savvy enough to jump on Zillow and Redfin and find my house, and they will demand they see it. If I hired a buyer agent and they tried to talk me out of showing a house over a commission I'd fire them right there.
joeax 10y ago
> Oddly, my mortgage guy never looked at Zillow (that I saw) for figuring out values, so shrug. A few years back I called Wells Fargo to get some info on refinancing, and the first thing the loan agent did was get on Zillow to calc the existing LTV.

toomuchtodo 10y ago

No one takes a Zestimate seriously in real estate (not realtors, not banks), so there's no need to create a free competitor. Financing still lives and dies by the professional appriasal; as long as banks prefer that, Zillow has zero pull.

drewbuschhorn 10y ago
Unfortunately I wasn't able to afford to have a professional appraisal done for every house my realtor showed me. I'm glad you were in a different position.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Comparables are what a Zestimate is without the BS "special sauce" that Zillow makes you think exists. Comparables are free, and based on existing property market data (typically sold similar properties looking back a certain period of time). https://www.biggerpockets.com/rei/real-estate-comps-house-value/ https://www.biggerpockets.com/rei/real-estate-comps-house-va... Yet again the tech community believing a problem exists to be solved that has already been solved. > In most markets comparables are acquired through an MLS database, and access to MLS is usually not free. This is true; you need to pay for access to the data source (no different than having to pay for access to equities market data). Redfin succeeds at this because they're a brokerage that happens to be a tech company, unlike Zillow who tries to just pay for feeds (that usually have stale data).
  - ensignavenger 10y ago
    In most markets comparables are acquired through an MLS database, and access to MLS is usually not free. You can hire or become friends with a real estate professional that pays for access to MLS (or become one yourself). But before sites like Zillow, there wasn't anything like it easily available to the average person.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      > But before sites like Zillow, there wasn't anything like it easily available to the average person. Zillow unfortunately doesn't help though, as no one takes the value seriously (except perhaps uneducated consumers entering the real estate market). Bad data is worse than no data.
    - yoloswagins 10y ago
      Or they can be acquired via county assessor data, for free, from the court house. From the county assessor, you'll get sold price, deed type, beds/baths, and high level sundry information.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        This works for historical data analysis, but falls over flat for trying to ascertain asset prices in markets, due to how much more quickly the MLS data is updated compared to public records (although, to Redfin's credit, they provide both the MLS record and public record for property events for completeness). Some properties are only on the market for hours/days; you'd never have a chance as a market participant if you only relied on stale public records.
        ensignavenger 10y ago
        Redfin is indeed awesome, but they are only available in select markets where they have a brokerage.
        10y ago
- ensignavenger 10y ago
  You usually do a professional appraisal after you have a house under contract, to verify that it is worth what you were willing to pay for it- this is usually done to protect the bank... though in many cases it may protect you as well, that (protecting you) is not the appraisers job. (At least, in most cases).
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    When I bought my house a year ago the bank sent someone out to appraise it.
  - bertjk 10y ago
    This is correct; you don't do an appraisal before getting a house, you get an appraisal before getting a mortgage. Typically you also get reappraised every time you refinance, and often the bank pays for it.
  - hnal943 10y ago
    Well, yeah. Does anyone need an appraiser to tell them how much the house is worth? Don't you look at what is available and negotiate the price accordingly?
    - ensignavenger 10y ago
      Banks are the biggest customers of appraisers. In most cases, they require an appraisal before they will lend on a property. As far as what you say- negotiating- yes, most buyers don't get appraisals done as part of the negotiating process. Some buyers do, however, get an appraisal to give them an idea what to ask for. Especially if their home is especially unique (and many people think their home is special, even when it isn't... but that is a whole 'nother ball of wax! :)
- jsjohnst 10y ago
  Why would you do an appraisal for every house you looked at? If you aren't seriously interested in it, what's the point in knowing what it's worth? This might not be the best analogy, but when looking for a wedding attire, do you walk into a store and look at the sticker price of every tux/suit/gown on the rack and then decide which to buy (especially without price comparing other places)?

coredog64 10y ago

> each realtor I talked to brought up how terrible Zillow was before I ever mentioned it So people who take percentage of the deal disparaged a tool that would net them less money...quelle surprise.

gedy 10y ago

I found and bought a house through Zillow and the selling agents were really irritated by this, and in many cases would ignore the Zillow agent (who was great). I think a lot of this is the fear of competition and the threat to their bottom line

achileas 10y ago

There are competitors that work more closely with realtors and also competitors that compete with just the zestimate, such as Smartzip.

joeax 10y ago

My bro-in-law became a real estate agent a couple years ago. Recently we were discussing Zillow, and he went into a tirade about how terrible it is. I just mentioned that it's a good tool to gauge the price trends of my neighborhood, but he began countering with canned, carefully scripted responses that sounded like indoctrination from his broker/employer. I just sighed, before the topic turned to how important it is to pay the full 6% when listing your house. The real estate industry is one of the most protectionist industries out there, and any threat of disruption, no matter how minor, is met by an army of vitriol.

hnal943 10y ago
What's funny is that Zillow's real business is selling advertising to realtors. The idea that they are out to get realtors is ridiculous.
shostack 10y ago
What were the arguments for the 6%? There is a broker in the Bay Area who advertisers that they take half that but the complaints against them see to point to the fact that you'll only get offers from other affiliated agents, and many agents won't share the listing with clients if they can avoid it because they want their full commission. I'm the Bay Area I feel like a seller's agent is grossly overpaid for what is often a weekend of open house showings and then fending off multiple above list price zero contingency offers.
- joeax 10y ago
  I've sold houses using discounted brokers and he hates that. He said that buyer agents will dissuade buyers from looking at houses offering less than "standard 3%" to the listing agent (another protectionist tactic). I countered that I don't care. In this day and age buyers are savvy enough to jump on Zillow and Redfin and find my house, and they will demand they see it. If I hired a buyer agent and they tried to talk me out of showing a house over a commission I'd fire them right there.

joeax 10y ago

> Oddly, my mortgage guy never looked at Zillow (that I saw) for figuring out values, so shrug. A few years back I called Wells Fargo to get some info on refinancing, and the first thing the loan agent did was get on Zillow to calc the existing LTV.