5 ms·

I read the post before it was removed. I don't agree with a lot of it (like declaring lists of things true and then qualifying individual items with "probably b

by 0xfeba 10y ago

I read the post before it was removed. I don't agree with a lot of it (like declaring lists of things true and then qualifying individual items with "probably because"), but I get your point. You have to tread very carefully. A better example would be a statement made by Trump's recent pick for National Security Adviser, Michael Flynn, in his book "The Field of Fight": "I don't believe all cultures are morally equivalent" Just that statement seems to bother many people, enough to have it included in Trevor Noah's Daily Show recently. But why? Why is that statement such a big deal? I believe Western culture is better than, say, Saudi Arabian culture. I realize there is no objective standard to base this on, but even if it is the same nationalism/tribalism Saudi Arabians judge Western culture, so be it. If you make the argument that we can't judge other cultures, wouldn't it also be true that you can't say they're equivalent, since that is judging them?

danans 10y ago
The statement is a problem because it is so general that it is devoid of any useful meaning, but it rather works as a huge dog-whistle. In the context of Flynn's other rhetoric, he's clearly referring to American Culture vs Islamic and other non European cultures. So why didn't he just state that directly, like you did? Why the "political correctness" around not using concrete examples of the "cultures" he is referring to? Probably because he is trying to maintain the thinnest possible veneer of plausible deniability of bigotry by avoiding making those references to specific cultures. However, even if you take his statement in isolation, how do you measure the morality of something as large as a "culture" anyway? Do you take the laws of a country that represses a huge number of it's citizens, like Saudi Arabia? There are huge numbers of individuals who do not subscribe to the "morality" of the culture that the world associates them with. Over-generalizing about cultures and denying individuals in those cultures moral agency is one step on the path to justification of terrible acts against them.
- 0xfeba 10y ago
  Flynn does go on in the book and explicitly state Islamic (don't recall if it mentions Islamist) culture is "evil", etc. I specifically mention a country rather than a extremist group. So he's not really hiding behind much. > how do you measure the morality of something as large as a "culture" anyway? Well, you can't. At least, not without being in terms of your own culture. That is, culture defines morals, in my opinion. But I see no problem in pointing out these problems--as long as you don't go as far as pre-emptively accusing individuals or demanding they account for them. Eg., accosting Scientologists over Scientology.
nitrogen 10y ago
> I read the post before it was removed. You should be able to see the flagged comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13105342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13105342) if you turn on showdead in your HN settings. It is disappointing that HN isn't able to discuss openly the ways in which true facts are (ab)used to create false beliefs.

by 0xfeba 10y ago

danans 10y ago

The statement is a problem because it is so general that it is devoid of any useful meaning, but it rather works as a huge dog-whistle. In the context of Flynn's other rhetoric, he's clearly referring to American Culture vs Islamic and other non European cultures. So why didn't he just state that directly, like you did? Why the "political correctness" around not using concrete examples of the "cultures" he is referring to? Probably because he is trying to maintain the thinnest possible veneer of plausible deniability of bigotry by avoiding making those references to specific cultures. However, even if you take his statement in isolation, how do you measure the morality of something as large as a "culture" anyway? Do you take the laws of a country that represses a huge number of it's citizens, like Saudi Arabia? There are huge numbers of individuals who do not subscribe to the "morality" of the culture that the world associates them with. Over-generalizing about cultures and denying individuals in those cultures moral agency is one step on the path to justification of terrible acts against them.

0xfeba 10y ago
Flynn does go on in the book and explicitly state Islamic (don't recall if it mentions Islamist) culture is "evil", etc. I specifically mention a country rather than a extremist group. So he's not really hiding behind much. > how do you measure the morality of something as large as a "culture" anyway? Well, you can't. At least, not without being in terms of your own culture. That is, culture defines morals, in my opinion. But I see no problem in pointing out these problems--as long as you don't go as far as pre-emptively accusing individuals or demanding they account for them. Eg., accosting Scientologists over Scientology.

nitrogen 10y ago

> I read the post before it was removed. You should be able to see the flagged comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13105342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13105342) if you turn on showdead in your HN settings. It is disappointing that HN isn't able to discuss openly the ways in which true facts are (ab)used to create false beliefs.