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I'll echo the sentiment of "useless interview", most of it was ungrounded rambling. I wrote a bit on the parts that actually seemed to have ideas going on. Whi
by resfirestar 10y ago
I'll echo the sentiment of "useless interview", most of it was ungrounded rambling. I wrote a bit on the parts that actually seemed to have ideas going on.
While I can't comment on the bill being discussed (not Canadian and it looks boring), the claims this guy is making about it consist of sweeping generalizations about feminist academics and activists, and a weird obsession with Marxism, something that he also describes using sweeping generalizations, but it's weird because I can't put a finger on what exactly he believes is common among and unique to Soviet nationalist and contemporary social justice discourse.
Of course, the most credibly leftist of the academics he blames for future human rights violations tend to be skeptical of or outright oppose the weird pronouns he hates, typically citing Foucault's theories about language and "medicalization". But rather than engage with something real, he talks about "revolutionary language", a concept that doesn't exist.
The interviewer does make one attempt to reference a real person, Alinsky, but what Peterson responds with makes no sense to me.
I think his point about academia is well represented by this quote, which is presented as an explanation of why all fields but STEM are stupid:
>If you interfere with the mechanism by which people formulate problems, solve them, and negotiate their implementation, then problems accrue and multiply. That’s what a hydra is – cut off one head, seven grow back.
The obvious problem with this line of thinking is that he never clearly specifies the source of interference, whether it's a toxic idea or a group of people. Maybe the bill is one, but it isn't retroactively turning everyone into authoritarian leftists (if we add time travel to the mix, a corrupt academia creating laws that ruin academia does make some sense)
>They have a term – patriarchy. It’s all-encompassing. It means that everything our society is, is corrupt. There’s no line, they mean everything. Go online, go look at ten women’s studies websites. Pick them at random. Read them. They say ‘western civilization is a corrupt patriarchy right down to the goddamned core. We have to overthrow it.’
This is one of the sweeping generalizations mentioned. I think it's sufficient to rattle off the names of some oft-cited feminist writers who believe nothing close to this: Firestone, Butler, Baumgardner.
Speaking of strawman he then proceeds to strawman one of his own arguments by claiming that gender discrimination NEVER existed in the West, and everything done to women was perfectly rational based on economic conditions. It sounds like I'm the one doing the strawman, but he was directly asked the question. That didn't put me in the mood to read the wall of text about intelligence and work ethic and success, guess I don't have the work ethic.
- Chris2048 10y ago> This is one of the sweeping generalizations mentioned If women's studies teach one thing, does it matter if some feminists believe another? - Their opinions haven't influenced the undergraduate courses. The obvious reply is "If any statement about feminism require all self-described feminists to be compliant, then there is no such thing as feminism".
- cholantesh 10y ago>If women's studies teach one thing Fairly big 'if'.
- Chris2048 10y agoJordan's' claim is: > Go online, go look at ten women’s studies websites. Pick them at random. Read them. They say.. resfirestar said: > I think it's sufficient to rattle off the names of some oft-cited feminist writers who believe nothing close to this: ... My point is that it isn't sufficient to prove a "sweeping generalization" - if WS courses generally teach this then Jordan has a point.
- resfirestar 10y agoAnecdotally, the authors I mentioned are staples of an undergraduate course in feminist theory. That said, also anecdotally, there isn't much that can be generalized about womens' studies courses because there are so many divergent concentrations around issues and schools of thought.
- sguav 10y agoIf the point of the interview was to critique feminism, then I would have supported your opinion. But even though reading some of his words made me cringe, I find it critically appealing that the main theme is 'We’re teaching university students lies'.
- resfirestar 10y ago