5 ms·

I'm one of those immigrant children that arrived in SF in the early 90s, now having grown up in SF and found success here, I'm actually looking at moving back t

I'm one of those immigrant children that arrived in SF in the early 90s, now having grown up in SF and found success here, I'm actually looking at moving back to work in tech in Moscow. There is an energy there that I haven't felt anywhere else, hopefully the geopolitical situation will settle down over the next few years to make it a reality.

gtirloni 10y ago
Where/How would you start looking for a job there? Do you know if Skolkovo is still a thing there?
- Fremis 10y ago
  Skolkovo is a big bullshit, not even close to Silicon Valley. They did nothing useful and have spent a lot of budget money for nothing.
- guard-of-terra 10y ago
  There are quite a few outsource shops who would benefit from having tech people with SV experience. For starters you might land a job for one of these. I would also recommend Sankt Petersburg over Moscow, having lived in both.
huhtenberg 10y ago
"Don't confuse tourism with immigration" Though if you go as an American, you will be in a nicely padded expat bubble and the life can be quite comfortable. Just like in any other country.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  There's this problem where tourists visit tourist sites or big cities in autocratic states and see everything as so orderly and relatively clean, with no homeless, not too much petty crime, little to no graffiti, etc. They see a lot of police around and think 'Hey these guys know what they're doing.' Of course, the cleanliness is a side effect of absurd fines, though not usually official, but because the police grab you and demand a bribe unless you want a higher made-up charge. The littering or jaywalking is just an excuse to shake you down. Or the fines and jailing are real and if a Westerner was on the receiving end of a week in jail or even physical punishment like caning for spitting out gum, they'd be incensed. The realization that should come later is that because people in the West have basic human rights, life is messy as its harder to control a population that's guaranteed rights. But in autocratic/dictatorial states many people are beaten, jailed, or simply killed with impunity or have a mock trial for formalities. Tourists will never see any of this and their Western passport means they'll never be shaken down or beaten or harassed by the authorities. They'll get preferential treatment because its within everyone's economic and political interests to do so. They mistakenly think this is how the locals are treated as well. Sadly, many Westerners get the 'big city' autocratic treatment and bemoan the messy chaos of their own cities, without realizing that chaos is a feature, not a bug, especially if you want your 'features' to be the rule of law, personal freedom, property rights, an independent judiciary, and human rights.
  - SticksAndBreaks 10y ago
    We have other sad excuses to shake you down. Petty drugs (Ganja), Copyrightviolations and beeing a Idiot (literally Privat-Man in ancient greek). Thus far, your list of things not found in the west can bef ound in the west.
    - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
      Western states certainly aren't perfect but they are far more permissive on a practical level and tend to lean towards lowered corruption and reasonable punishments outside of edge cases. From a tourist's perspective NYC, Chicago, LA are a madhouse of crime, graffiti, etc while Pyongyang is a wonderful, clean, and relatively quiet capital. You'd think the latter would be utopia, but of course, its far from it. My point is that a tourist's experience actually has the opposite incentives as a citizen's experience. An oppressed and submissive populace is nice for tourists but not nice for locals. A boisterous, empowered, and loud populace is nice for locals but not nice for tourists. For example, I imagine the Paris and Athens metro systems go on strike a lot more than the Moscow and Pyongyang metro systems do.
  - nicolas_t 10y ago
    To be fair though, as a European who has lived in China and spent some time in NYC. I'm always very fearful of the police in the US. I've heard about all the horror stories and I know that as a foreigner I'm even less likely to be treated well. I'm much more scared of the US police than of the police in UK, France or Spain. In China, I'm scared of the police too but I know that I'll get preferential treatment because I'm a foreigner so excesses are less likely. That said, I agree with your points, especially with China becoming more and more autocratic since 2013...
    - frozenport 10y ago
      Both China and Russia run this kind of anti-us proganda. Its not true, the police in the US will treat you the same way that the police in other countries such as Britain treat their citizens.

gtirloni 10y ago

Where/How would you start looking for a job there? Do you know if Skolkovo is still a thing there?

Fremis 10y ago
Skolkovo is a big bullshit, not even close to Silicon Valley. They did nothing useful and have spent a lot of budget money for nothing.
guard-of-terra 10y ago
There are quite a few outsource shops who would benefit from having tech people with SV experience. For starters you might land a job for one of these. I would also recommend Sankt Petersburg over Moscow, having lived in both.

huhtenberg 10y ago

"Don't confuse tourism with immigration" Though if you go as an American, you will be in a nicely padded expat bubble and the life can be quite comfortable. Just like in any other country.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago
There's this problem where tourists visit tourist sites or big cities in autocratic states and see everything as so orderly and relatively clean, with no homeless, not too much petty crime, little to no graffiti, etc. They see a lot of police around and think 'Hey these guys know what they're doing.' Of course, the cleanliness is a side effect of absurd fines, though not usually official, but because the police grab you and demand a bribe unless you want a higher made-up charge. The littering or jaywalking is just an excuse to shake you down. Or the fines and jailing are real and if a Westerner was on the receiving end of a week in jail or even physical punishment like caning for spitting out gum, they'd be incensed. The realization that should come later is that because people in the West have basic human rights, life is messy as its harder to control a population that's guaranteed rights. But in autocratic/dictatorial states many people are beaten, jailed, or simply killed with impunity or have a mock trial for formalities. Tourists will never see any of this and their Western passport means they'll never be shaken down or beaten or harassed by the authorities. They'll get preferential treatment because its within everyone's economic and political interests to do so. They mistakenly think this is how the locals are treated as well. Sadly, many Westerners get the 'big city' autocratic treatment and bemoan the messy chaos of their own cities, without realizing that chaos is a feature, not a bug, especially if you want your 'features' to be the rule of law, personal freedom, property rights, an independent judiciary, and human rights.
- SticksAndBreaks 10y ago
  We have other sad excuses to shake you down. Petty drugs (Ganja), Copyrightviolations and beeing a Idiot (literally Privat-Man in ancient greek). Thus far, your list of things not found in the west can bef ound in the west.
  - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
    Western states certainly aren't perfect but they are far more permissive on a practical level and tend to lean towards lowered corruption and reasonable punishments outside of edge cases. From a tourist's perspective NYC, Chicago, LA are a madhouse of crime, graffiti, etc while Pyongyang is a wonderful, clean, and relatively quiet capital. You'd think the latter would be utopia, but of course, its far from it. My point is that a tourist's experience actually has the opposite incentives as a citizen's experience. An oppressed and submissive populace is nice for tourists but not nice for locals. A boisterous, empowered, and loud populace is nice for locals but not nice for tourists. For example, I imagine the Paris and Athens metro systems go on strike a lot more than the Moscow and Pyongyang metro systems do.
- nicolas_t 10y ago
  To be fair though, as a European who has lived in China and spent some time in NYC. I'm always very fearful of the police in the US. I've heard about all the horror stories and I know that as a foreigner I'm even less likely to be treated well. I'm much more scared of the US police than of the police in UK, France or Spain. In China, I'm scared of the police too but I know that I'll get preferential treatment because I'm a foreigner so excesses are less likely. That said, I agree with your points, especially with China becoming more and more autocratic since 2013...
  - frozenport 10y ago
    Both China and Russia run this kind of anti-us proganda. Its not true, the police in the US will treat you the same way that the police in other countries such as Britain treat their citizens.