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Is there a legitimate reason a _text editor_ developer should be allowed to make their software call home? I've only seen Electron-based editors doing metrics,

Is there a legitimate reason a _text editor_ developer should be allowed to make their software call home? I've only seen Electron-based editors doing metrics, perhaps web developers are less offended by the idea thanks to pervasive usage of things like Google Analytics.

Skunkleton 10y ago
Pretty much all commercially developed software has usage collection. Why is a text editor any different?
- khedoros1 10y ago
  Exactly. No piece of software should be calling home, except to the degree that its core operation depends on it, and even then, that data should be easily available to the user.
  - eropple 10y ago
    So developers should be shooting in the dark on what their users are actually doing with the software and have no data with which to better allocate resources to the features that will cover the most users? Bold move, Cotton.
    - khedoros1 10y ago
      When they don't provide a method for their user to audit and/or disable telemetry? Yes, I'd prefer them to be blind. I don't expect that this would be a particularly popular position, and that if I kept it as a strict requirement for software I use, it would make it essentially impossible for me to find options in whole classes of software.
    - izacus 10y ago
      Developers built great software just fine without constant data spying.... on the other hand all that great "important" data collection somehow doesn't assist in making modern Electron apps any less of a CPU, battery and RAM hogging arse of a software. Most of analytics data never gets looked at and never provides any useful insight because it's setup poorly.
      - hashhar 10y ago
        Well, comparing VSCode to Atom I can say that VSCode runs circles around Atom even though both of them are electron based editors.
    - sooheon 10y ago
      Yes, developers should have to put some thought into designing their own products. If they're curious how their product is being used, they should do the footwork and ask, and open channels for voluntary feedback. They can collect data with permission. End users' control over their own data is more important than making it easier for developers.
    - codedokode 10y ago
      Developers should ask users to opt-in and help with the development. Programs should not send a single byte without users's consent.
0xcoffee 10y ago
An example of how they use telemetry can be seen in their issue tracker. Here is an example: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/707 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/707
Someone 10y ago
There's a lot of information developers could use for the benefit of their users, if they had access to it, some of only very mildly privacy invading, some of it extremely so. Collecting call stacks from crashing threads or executables can be incredibly useful for fixing them. Measuring what functionality gets used and what not can help direct feature development (should that checkbox be as visible as it is?) Collecting statistics on Unicode code point usage may direct development of core data structures (UTF-16 might be the best choice for the basic character unit) Collecting CPU/memory/disk stats similarly may direct development (if most of your users have gigabytes of free RAM, that change that takes 20% more memory but speeds up things may be useful; if they have plenty of idling CPU! But no memory, things are different) Knowing what percentage of your users run on a 80386 may help making the decision to compile for at least a 80486. Knowing internet connection speed and amount of free disk space may help make the decision to move all help online. Knowing the default browser can help direct testing of the help system, if that system uses the default browser. Knowing the locale of your users may give hints as to what spell checking languages or UI translations to support. Having access to the custom dictionaries of all your users may be helpful in improving the ones you ship with the editor. Having access to every edit made (we are deeply into 'extremely privacy invading' territory now) may also be helpful. For example, you may discover that most of your users don't seem to know about a shortcut that combines five other actions. Etc, etc.
- hartator 10y ago
  Everything here can be solved by an Apple like pop-up whenever something crashes that ask you if it's okay to send the crash informarion plus machine information. Telemetry doesn't bring anything more to the table. When I see an app with telemtry, I am just thinking they don't know what they are doing.
  - Klathmon 10y ago
    Except for everything that didn't involve a crash (which was everything in that list except the first thing)

Skunkleton 10y ago

Pretty much all commercially developed software has usage collection. Why is a text editor any different?

khedoros1 10y ago
Exactly. No piece of software should be calling home, except to the degree that its core operation depends on it, and even then, that data should be easily available to the user.
- eropple 10y ago
  So developers should be shooting in the dark on what their users are actually doing with the software and have no data with which to better allocate resources to the features that will cover the most users? Bold move, Cotton.
  - khedoros1 10y ago
    When they don't provide a method for their user to audit and/or disable telemetry? Yes, I'd prefer them to be blind. I don't expect that this would be a particularly popular position, and that if I kept it as a strict requirement for software I use, it would make it essentially impossible for me to find options in whole classes of software.
  - izacus 10y ago
    Developers built great software just fine without constant data spying.... on the other hand all that great "important" data collection somehow doesn't assist in making modern Electron apps any less of a CPU, battery and RAM hogging arse of a software. Most of analytics data never gets looked at and never provides any useful insight because it's setup poorly.
    - hashhar 10y ago
      Well, comparing VSCode to Atom I can say that VSCode runs circles around Atom even though both of them are electron based editors.
  - sooheon 10y ago
    Yes, developers should have to put some thought into designing their own products. If they're curious how their product is being used, they should do the footwork and ask, and open channels for voluntary feedback. They can collect data with permission. End users' control over their own data is more important than making it easier for developers.
  - codedokode 10y ago
    Developers should ask users to opt-in and help with the development. Programs should not send a single byte without users's consent.

0xcoffee 10y ago

An example of how they use telemetry can be seen in their issue tracker. Here is an example: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/707 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/707

Someone 10y ago

There's a lot of information developers could use for the benefit of their users, if they had access to it, some of only very mildly privacy invading, some of it extremely so. Collecting call stacks from crashing threads or executables can be incredibly useful for fixing them. Measuring what functionality gets used and what not can help direct feature development (should that checkbox be as visible as it is?) Collecting statistics on Unicode code point usage may direct development of core data structures (UTF-16 might be the best choice for the basic character unit) Collecting CPU/memory/disk stats similarly may direct development (if most of your users have gigabytes of free RAM, that change that takes 20% more memory but speeds up things may be useful; if they have plenty of idling CPU! But no memory, things are different) Knowing what percentage of your users run on a 80386 may help making the decision to compile for at least a 80486. Knowing internet connection speed and amount of free disk space may help make the decision to move all help online. Knowing the default browser can help direct testing of the help system, if that system uses the default browser. Knowing the locale of your users may give hints as to what spell checking languages or UI translations to support. Having access to the custom dictionaries of all your users may be helpful in improving the ones you ship with the editor. Having access to every edit made (we are deeply into 'extremely privacy invading' territory now) may also be helpful. For example, you may discover that most of your users don't seem to know about a shortcut that combines five other actions. Etc, etc.

hartator 10y ago
Everything here can be solved by an Apple like pop-up whenever something crashes that ask you if it's okay to send the crash informarion plus machine information. Telemetry doesn't bring anything more to the table. When I see an app with telemtry, I am just thinking they don't know what they are doing.
- Klathmon 10y ago
  Except for everything that didn't involve a crash (which was everything in that list except the first thing)