6 ms·

As mentioned by others in previous threads -- even with the web's shortcomings vs. desktop (or native OS) applications, the web still has major advantages for b

by blehn 16y ago

As mentioned by others in previous threads -- even with the web's shortcomings vs. desktop (or native OS) applications, the web still has major advantages for both the developer and the consumer. for the developer: - distribution is easy. buy a domain name. - agile, iterative development is possible. you can ship a MVP, and push updates frequently and easily. - greater reach. developing one web app (possibly with a mobile web version) is more efficient than creating a windows, mac, linux, iphone, ipad, android, etc for the consumer: - no installation necessary. - updates are invisible. I'm pretty good at keeping my software up to date, but I just looked at my iPhone and I have 22(!) app updates waiting for me. It's a chore to keep up with that. - accessible from any computer. As new browser technologies (HTML5) allow developers to utilize more of the computer's powerful hardware (local storage, GPU acceleration, etc), I think native desktop/mobile applications will become even less necessary. You couldn't pay me to use an existing desktop mail client over Gmail. While some applications will be slow to move to the web for obvious reasons (intensive audio and video production), I don't see any reason why ChromeOS (or the browser-based OS) won't be a huge success.

grayrest 16y ago
I'll also toss in the back button as one of the greatest platform features out there.
- mbrubeck 16y ago
  Yes! And the Android back button as another example of operating systems playing catch-up to web browsers. (Clearly the innovation and imitation is flowing in both directions.)
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
btmorex 16y ago
"You couldn't pay me to use an existing desktop mail client over Gmail." So, I understand having your email everywhere. That is a killer feature. But you can also provide that feature by simply having a web gateway to your IMAP mail. What exactly is the killer feature of gmail? The tagging is nice, but other programs have similar features. Teh spam filtering is nice, but actually there are better spam filters. The only thing I can think of is the integration with google docs and I actually hate that feature. I don't know how they managed it, but opening a pdf with google docs is about 5x slower than downloading the pdf and opening with evince. So, it's pretty much a non-feature unless you can't be bothered installing a pdf reader. I guess I find gmail useful, but I'd still rather use a normal email client if for no other reason than interruptions in my network connection don't affect working really.
- FooBarWidget 16y ago
  That web gateway has to be maintained and that is one of the biggest drawbacks over a hosted service like Gmail. If you don't constantly upgrade your server and your software one day you'll get rooted by some exploit bot. Sure, if you have the time and patience to constantly maintain your servers, and you think your web gateway's UI is as good as Gmail (I don't) then go for it. I want to spend my time doing actual work though. > but opening a pdf with google docs is about 5x slower than downloading the pdf and opening with evince And yet I keep using their preview feature because it somehow feels faster than opening it in a native app. The actual stopwatch time doesn't matter, it's the perception. I think this is the reason why people like Gmail so much: it feels fast, it feels comfortable to use. It's not so much the features; strip out a few features and I'd still use Gmail.
- tjogin 16y ago
  You couldn't pay me to use an existing desktop mail client over Gmail, either. Other than reasons you already iterated, the killer feature for me, the one I truly cannot be without, is the threaded conversation view. I know some desktop clients have threaded views, but unlike Gmail's implementation, they suck.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    Have you compared this to Outlook 2010's threading?
    - tjogin 16y ago
      You couldn't pay me to use Windows either.
- rufo 16y ago
  As far as I know, the way Gmail handles conversations and archiving is unreplicated by any desktop client, and single-handedly the most powerful thing about Gmail. I now have a regular habit of archiving any message that doesn't have an actionable item, decluttering my inbox. If another message should arrive in a thread, I have the entire conversation history right there. A good desktop app could replicate it, but I could see this behavior being difficult to map on top of a standard IMAP server. In addition, there are a ton of innovative small features (especially in Labs - Don't forget Bob!/Got the wrong Bob? have saved my ass multiple times with new clients) that I just don't see other e-mail clients implementing, and they're constantly rolling out new ones. The fact I can get the exact same functionality on any computer I happen to be on is just icing on the cake. Ultimately: it feels like desktop clients have largely stagnated, while Gmail has an incredibly effective way of thinking about e-mail.
dkersten 16y ago
The biggest thing I dislike about web development is the available client-side programming languages.
- dkersten 16y ago
  I understand that people are attached to Javascript, but I don't know why someone would downvote because of that. I didn't mean it as a jab at Javascript, but an observation that we're extremely limited when it comes to client-side programming language choice. We can use Javascript.. or flash.. or Java applets (which really is't much of contender these days). Thats more or less it. Yes, theres a few projects which translate Java or Python to Javascript, but you're limited to whatever they can piggyback on top of Javascript. Thats not much of a choice and yes, I dislike that this is my only choice for client-side programming. What if the Javascript VM ran bytecode instead, like the JVM or CLI? Then plenty of other languages could target the browser and we'd have more choice, flexability and innovation. Javascript serves it purpose of client-side web scripting well enough, but with the whole move to the web, its a little ridiculous that this is almost the only choice I have. The great thing about desktop programming is the wealth of different languages I can use - C, Python, Ruby, Erlang, Haskell, Clojure, Prolog, F# and so on.. thats a nice bit of variety! Different languages are good and bad at different things, forcing everyone to use one is not, IMHO, a good thing and, contrary to what Javascript fanboys say, the language is not perfect or suited to everything you may want to do in a browser (which is becoming increasingly more).
amalcon 16y ago
Heh. You couldn't pay me to use GMail over Thunderbird. Thunderbird may not have the fancy conversation stuff, but GMail has no reasonable way to deal with the four separate accounts I use for various things.
- necubi 16y ago
  Funny, that's why you couldn't pay me to use Thunderbird over GMail. Incidentally, if you are interested, there are ways to manage multiple accounts, though they're a bit clumsy. Basically, you can have GMail download your other email accounts through POP (or have them forward to your gmail account). Then in gmail you can create a rule that automatically labels email from that account appropriately and create another inbox to handle just that mail. Finally, it lets you set up an alternate sending address, and you can set it to always reply with the same email that the original was sent to.
- r0s 16y ago
  I use Gmail to manage four separate accounts. You can set filters that label each message based on sender, or any search really. For example to:main@gmail.com gets labeled and color coded. You can set up multiple inboxes for your accounts. Also it's easy to switch between accounts when replying, to reply from a different address for example. Gmail is just too good for me not to use it, but use whatever works for you.
stcredzero 16y ago
More like: the web does suck, and it innovates. (Also there's plenty of good and great on it at the same time.)

by blehn 16y ago

grayrest 16y ago

I'll also toss in the back button as one of the greatest platform features out there.

mbrubeck 16y ago
Yes! And the Android back button as another example of operating systems playing catch-up to web browsers. (Clearly the innovation and imitation is flowing in both directions.)

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

btmorex 16y ago

"You couldn't pay me to use an existing desktop mail client over Gmail." So, I understand having your email everywhere. That is a killer feature. But you can also provide that feature by simply having a web gateway to your IMAP mail. What exactly is the killer feature of gmail? The tagging is nice, but other programs have similar features. Teh spam filtering is nice, but actually there are better spam filters. The only thing I can think of is the integration with google docs and I actually hate that feature. I don't know how they managed it, but opening a pdf with google docs is about 5x slower than downloading the pdf and opening with evince. So, it's pretty much a non-feature unless you can't be bothered installing a pdf reader. I guess I find gmail useful, but I'd still rather use a normal email client if for no other reason than interruptions in my network connection don't affect working really.

FooBarWidget 16y ago
That web gateway has to be maintained and that is one of the biggest drawbacks over a hosted service like Gmail. If you don't constantly upgrade your server and your software one day you'll get rooted by some exploit bot. Sure, if you have the time and patience to constantly maintain your servers, and you think your web gateway's UI is as good as Gmail (I don't) then go for it. I want to spend my time doing actual work though. > but opening a pdf with google docs is about 5x slower than downloading the pdf and opening with evince And yet I keep using their preview feature because it somehow feels faster than opening it in a native app. The actual stopwatch time doesn't matter, it's the perception. I think this is the reason why people like Gmail so much: it feels fast, it feels comfortable to use. It's not so much the features; strip out a few features and I'd still use Gmail.
tjogin 16y ago
You couldn't pay me to use an existing desktop mail client over Gmail, either. Other than reasons you already iterated, the killer feature for me, the one I truly cannot be without, is the threaded conversation view. I know some desktop clients have threaded views, but unlike Gmail's implementation, they suck.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  Have you compared this to Outlook 2010's threading?
  - tjogin 16y ago
    You couldn't pay me to use Windows either.
rufo 16y ago
As far as I know, the way Gmail handles conversations and archiving is unreplicated by any desktop client, and single-handedly the most powerful thing about Gmail. I now have a regular habit of archiving any message that doesn't have an actionable item, decluttering my inbox. If another message should arrive in a thread, I have the entire conversation history right there. A good desktop app could replicate it, but I could see this behavior being difficult to map on top of a standard IMAP server. In addition, there are a ton of innovative small features (especially in Labs - Don't forget Bob!/Got the wrong Bob? have saved my ass multiple times with new clients) that I just don't see other e-mail clients implementing, and they're constantly rolling out new ones. The fact I can get the exact same functionality on any computer I happen to be on is just icing on the cake. Ultimately: it feels like desktop clients have largely stagnated, while Gmail has an incredibly effective way of thinking about e-mail.

dkersten 16y ago

The biggest thing I dislike about web development is the available client-side programming languages.

dkersten 16y ago
I understand that people are attached to Javascript, but I don't know why someone would downvote because of that. I didn't mean it as a jab at Javascript, but an observation that we're extremely limited when it comes to client-side programming language choice. We can use Javascript.. or flash.. or Java applets (which really is't much of contender these days). Thats more or less it. Yes, theres a few projects which translate Java or Python to Javascript, but you're limited to whatever they can piggyback on top of Javascript. Thats not much of a choice and yes, I dislike that this is my only choice for client-side programming. What if the Javascript VM ran bytecode instead, like the JVM or CLI? Then plenty of other languages could target the browser and we'd have more choice, flexability and innovation. Javascript serves it purpose of client-side web scripting well enough, but with the whole move to the web, its a little ridiculous that this is almost the only choice I have. The great thing about desktop programming is the wealth of different languages I can use - C, Python, Ruby, Erlang, Haskell, Clojure, Prolog, F# and so on.. thats a nice bit of variety! Different languages are good and bad at different things, forcing everyone to use one is not, IMHO, a good thing and, contrary to what Javascript fanboys say, the language is not perfect or suited to everything you may want to do in a browser (which is becoming increasingly more).

amalcon 16y ago

Heh. You couldn't pay me to use GMail over Thunderbird. Thunderbird may not have the fancy conversation stuff, but GMail has no reasonable way to deal with the four separate accounts I use for various things.

necubi 16y ago
Funny, that's why you couldn't pay me to use Thunderbird over GMail. Incidentally, if you are interested, there are ways to manage multiple accounts, though they're a bit clumsy. Basically, you can have GMail download your other email accounts through POP (or have them forward to your gmail account). Then in gmail you can create a rule that automatically labels email from that account appropriately and create another inbox to handle just that mail. Finally, it lets you set up an alternate sending address, and you can set it to always reply with the same email that the original was sent to.
r0s 16y ago
I use Gmail to manage four separate accounts. You can set filters that label each message based on sender, or any search really. For example to:main@gmail.com gets labeled and color coded. You can set up multiple inboxes for your accounts. Also it's easy to switch between accounts when replying, to reply from a different address for example. Gmail is just too good for me not to use it, but use whatever works for you.

stcredzero 16y ago

More like: the web does suck, and it innovates. (Also there's plenty of good and great on it at the same time.)