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The FBI couldn't be trusted to take down Silk Road without lining the pockets of their agents. This is a recipe for massive corporate espionage.

by crb002 10y ago

mox1 10y ago
The rogue silk road "agents" were part of DEA and Secret Service. If you can get basic facts about this correct, please don't spread mis-information.
- alexandercrohde 10y ago
  Do you think that distinction is substantive? Do you think there's some reason to believe that FBI agents are morally superior to the DEA and Secret Service? As I see it, the illegal and immoral activities of individiuals within acronym agencies comes down to group think, tribalism, and a removal of separation of powers which this country was founded on. If a DEA agent does it, I think that increases the odds the FBI will do it.
  - Ensorceled 10y ago
    That is like saying if any police organization is corrupt in any way, then we can assume they all are deeply corrupt. So, yes, the distinction is substantive.
    - BoringCode 10y ago
      "If any corporation is corrupt, all others must be too"
    - alexandercrohde 10y ago
      Well, no that's a little different. If one out of thousands of police organizations were corrupt, that would offer little evidence that the average one is. If one out of 5 acronym agencies is corrupt, that's a 20% corruption rate. Now of course one incident doesn't prove a whole organization is bad. But it does show the processes used by that organization have insufficient oversight to prevent it. Moreover, it's not simply one case. Yes, the comment brought up an isolated case, but there are many more known cases, and I'm curious how many unknown cases there are.... I feel like your arguments have been willfully oversimplifying and I question what your dog in this fight is.
    - sintaxi 10y ago
      When creating policies we should assume all human organizations are corrupt.
nkw 10y ago
I understand your point, but the corrupt Silk Road agents (at least the ones that are known at this time) were actually from the DEA and Secret Service.[1] Corrupt FBI agents, while they exist and can cause incredible damage, are reasonably rare. For instance John Connolly[2], Robert Hanssen[3], Paul Rico[4] [1] https://www.wired.com/2016/11/ross-ulbrichts-lawyers-point-another-corrupt-agent-silk-road-case/ https://www.wired.com/2016/11/ross-ulbrichts-lawyers-point-a... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Connolly_(FBI) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Connolly_(FBI) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Paul_Rico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Paul_Rico
- alexandercrohde 10y ago
  What evidence do you have that corrupt FBI agents are rare? Just because OUTSIDERS have only publicly caught a few does not suggest those are the only ones. There is also more to the problem than corrupt individuals. Sometimes incorrect attitudes (racism, mistrust of whistleblowers, unjust patriotism) can result in organizations doing awful and immoral things even if single members are not publicly charged with a crime. Or when an organization believes it knows better than the constitution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimony_to_Congress_on_NSA_surveillance_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimo...)

The FBI couldn't be trusted to take down Silk Road without lining the pockets of their agents. This is a recipe for massive corporate espionage.

by crb002 10y ago

The FBI couldn't be trusted to take down Silk Road without lining the pockets of their agents. This is a recipe for massive corporate espionage.

mox1 10y ago

The rogue silk road "agents" were part of DEA and Secret Service. If you can get basic facts about this correct, please don't spread mis-information.

alexandercrohde 10y ago
Do you think that distinction is substantive? Do you think there's some reason to believe that FBI agents are morally superior to the DEA and Secret Service? As I see it, the illegal and immoral activities of individiuals within acronym agencies comes down to group think, tribalism, and a removal of separation of powers which this country was founded on. If a DEA agent does it, I think that increases the odds the FBI will do it.
- Ensorceled 10y ago
  That is like saying if any police organization is corrupt in any way, then we can assume they all are deeply corrupt. So, yes, the distinction is substantive.
  - BoringCode 10y ago
    "If any corporation is corrupt, all others must be too"
  - alexandercrohde 10y ago
    Well, no that's a little different. If one out of thousands of police organizations were corrupt, that would offer little evidence that the average one is. If one out of 5 acronym agencies is corrupt, that's a 20% corruption rate. Now of course one incident doesn't prove a whole organization is bad. But it does show the processes used by that organization have insufficient oversight to prevent it. Moreover, it's not simply one case. Yes, the comment brought up an isolated case, but there are many more known cases, and I'm curious how many unknown cases there are.... I feel like your arguments have been willfully oversimplifying and I question what your dog in this fight is.
  - sintaxi 10y ago
    When creating policies we should assume all human organizations are corrupt.

nkw 10y ago

I understand your point, but the corrupt Silk Road agents (at least the ones that are known at this time) were actually from the DEA and Secret Service.[1] Corrupt FBI agents, while they exist and can cause incredible damage, are reasonably rare. For instance John Connolly[2], Robert Hanssen[3], Paul Rico[4] [1] https://www.wired.com/2016/11/ross-ulbrichts-lawyers-point-another-corrupt-agent-silk-road-case/ https://www.wired.com/2016/11/ross-ulbrichts-lawyers-point-a... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Connolly_(FBI) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Connolly_(FBI) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Paul_Rico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Paul_Rico

alexandercrohde 10y ago
What evidence do you have that corrupt FBI agents are rare? Just because OUTSIDERS have only publicly caught a few does not suggest those are the only ones. There is also more to the problem than corrupt individuals. Sometimes incorrect attitudes (racism, mistrust of whistleblowers, unjust patriotism) can result in organizations doing awful and immoral things even if single members are not publicly charged with a crime. Or when an organization believes it knows better than the constitution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimony_to_Congress_on_NSA_surveillance_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper#False_testimo...)