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It's... less good for Hacker News that click-baity article titls are getting more upvotes. This story was reported 3 times in the last 2 days... https://hn.al

It's... less good for Hacker News that click-baity article titls are getting more upvotes. This story was reported 3 times in the last 2 days... https://hn.algolia.com/?query=standing%20rock&sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=standing%20rock&sort=byDate&pr...

DiabloD3 10y ago
It has been reported, yet the government has still not backed down in attacking its own citizens over legal and morally correct actions. The news should continue to be reported until it is no longer news, especially given the large scale anti-American technological effort being mounted by our own government to protect the interests of Big Oil.
- dbg31415 10y ago
  Morally correct? That's a pretty questionable statement. The protesters tried to cause a privately owned herd of buffalo to stampede into the construction site... This resulted in a number of buffalo and a horse being killed. The protesters are causing damage to construction equipment owned by individual owner-operators. Small businesses. This isn't right. This isn't standing up to the government, or civil disobedience, it's destruction of private property. And before someone accuses me of not caring about the people there... I grew up about 30 miles away from where the main protest is happening. These are my family members... on both sides. You going to give up your car and not use any oil? If so, great, you've got a leg to stand on. But we have thousands of miles of pipelines across this country. Pipelines are more efficient than trains or trucks... as long as people still use oil, we still need oil pipelines. What's the alternative?
  - DiabloD3 10y ago
    The Oil industry has no future, and anyone who continues to invest in it or further the goals of that industry isn't a very good investor and is prioritizing short term profits over long term investments. One of the largest drains on the US economy is the fossil fuels industry. There is no future for them. We, as a society, need to admit this, and move on. How do we appologize to future generations, "Sorry, we raped the land, we killed innocent people, you're dying of cancer, because temporary money was more important instead of using better energy production methods"? I've never heard of a solar farm having a sunlight pipeline leak, or earthquakes caused by fracking the ground for wind reserves, or people mining renewable energy and the mines collapsing and killing dozens. People's lives have monetary value: they are assets that are worth something. It is not profitable to sacrifice assets of such high value for such unimportant things. So, yes, morally and financially correct. And the alternative? Tesla. Either buy their car, buy a car from someone that licensed their technology, or buy a brand new... ancient relic from the past.
    - dbg31415 10y ago
      Do the math. It's going to take time to switch off of petroleum. Even if Teslas were free, it'd take decades to replace all the existing cars with Teslas. You want us to do nothing in the interim? We're in the process of moving on, but we can't stop everything while it's happening. The fact that you think people in North Dakota should be driving Teslas... it's pretty shitty uneducated thing to say. Compassion, right? Understand what people need to do, what they want to do, and suggest alternatives. You aren't even trying, just spewing, "Oil is bad!" sound-bites. This isn't Reddit... Please note that there isn't a single Tesla supercharging station in the entire state of North Dakota. 0. So... I guess you want those people to just... move? Die off? What exactly is your plan here for the people who live in North Dakota? Give up oil tomorrow, give up jobs that provide for their families, and... what exactly do they do next? It's a process, it'll take time. https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124.39?search=supercharger&name=us https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124... You're clearly clueless and haven't ever been to North Dakota. Understand that most roads aren't paved, many people live in rural areas, when it rains... we're talking massive washouts and mud you can't drive a car through. Mud that a 4-wheel drive pickup gets stuck in. And you're there saying those people, and everyone, should just instantly overnight drive a Tesla. Smart.
      - marssaxman 10y ago
        Refusing to authorize the construction of more petroleum-extraction infrastructure is a great way to spur market-based activity toward switching away from petroleum. If fossil fuels are cheap, people will keep using them. When fossil fuels become more expensive than the alternatives, people will switch. We do not have very much time left - we've been hanging out in the "interim" you propose for at least thirty years now, which is as long as I've been aware of the issue - so we really do need to push on both ends of this equation.
        dbg31415 10y ago
        First, it hasn't been 30 years. The Tesla is the first sort-of-viable alternative to most cars that hit the market. And... I say "sort-of-viable" because you can't tow a horse trailer or throw hay bales off the back of a Tesla. So... see my previous comment, it's not a viable alternative. The oil pipeline represents the kind of economic engine that allows the people of North Dakota to be able to afford Teslas. Look at the state... it's filled with industrious people (very very low unemployment rate), who make not a lot of money (very very low average wage). Besides, nobody is talking about NOT having a pipeline, they're just talking about moving it. One way or the other a pipeline is getting built, it's just a matter of 10-15 miles one way or the other. If I'm hearing you right, you'd rather ship oil from over seas (the amount of carbon released is staggering), or ship it via truck, because building a pipeline is wrong and bad and evil. Because... why exactly? It'll be a generation or more before we're off petroleum, won't happen over night. Does it make sense to be less efficient, and make it harder for the people in that state to earn money, while we wait? The pipeline will function for the rest of our lives... we aren't getting off fossil fuels that quickly. Think about not only cars, but pickups, tractors, construction equipment... on our ranch we had a 50+ year-old bulldozer that we still used. Those sorts of big-engine items won't be replaced by solar power for a lifetime or more. Not like we could have afforded to buy a new bulldozer... fossil fuels... plan on them being here for our lifetimes. I understand climate change, I don't think it's a great thing, but it's just the world we live in.
  - neekburm 10y ago
    What do you call a wumao in the U.S.? A fifty-center? Let's just call him a wumao.

DiabloD3 10y ago

It has been reported, yet the government has still not backed down in attacking its own citizens over legal and morally correct actions. The news should continue to be reported until it is no longer news, especially given the large scale anti-American technological effort being mounted by our own government to protect the interests of Big Oil.

dbg31415 10y ago
Morally correct? That's a pretty questionable statement. The protesters tried to cause a privately owned herd of buffalo to stampede into the construction site... This resulted in a number of buffalo and a horse being killed. The protesters are causing damage to construction equipment owned by individual owner-operators. Small businesses. This isn't right. This isn't standing up to the government, or civil disobedience, it's destruction of private property. And before someone accuses me of not caring about the people there... I grew up about 30 miles away from where the main protest is happening. These are my family members... on both sides. You going to give up your car and not use any oil? If so, great, you've got a leg to stand on. But we have thousands of miles of pipelines across this country. Pipelines are more efficient than trains or trucks... as long as people still use oil, we still need oil pipelines. What's the alternative?
- DiabloD3 10y ago
  The Oil industry has no future, and anyone who continues to invest in it or further the goals of that industry isn't a very good investor and is prioritizing short term profits over long term investments. One of the largest drains on the US economy is the fossil fuels industry. There is no future for them. We, as a society, need to admit this, and move on. How do we appologize to future generations, "Sorry, we raped the land, we killed innocent people, you're dying of cancer, because temporary money was more important instead of using better energy production methods"? I've never heard of a solar farm having a sunlight pipeline leak, or earthquakes caused by fracking the ground for wind reserves, or people mining renewable energy and the mines collapsing and killing dozens. People's lives have monetary value: they are assets that are worth something. It is not profitable to sacrifice assets of such high value for such unimportant things. So, yes, morally and financially correct. And the alternative? Tesla. Either buy their car, buy a car from someone that licensed their technology, or buy a brand new... ancient relic from the past.
  - dbg31415 10y ago
    Do the math. It's going to take time to switch off of petroleum. Even if Teslas were free, it'd take decades to replace all the existing cars with Teslas. You want us to do nothing in the interim? We're in the process of moving on, but we can't stop everything while it's happening. The fact that you think people in North Dakota should be driving Teslas... it's pretty shitty uneducated thing to say. Compassion, right? Understand what people need to do, what they want to do, and suggest alternatives. You aren't even trying, just spewing, "Oil is bad!" sound-bites. This isn't Reddit... Please note that there isn't a single Tesla supercharging station in the entire state of North Dakota. 0. So... I guess you want those people to just... move? Die off? What exactly is your plan here for the people who live in North Dakota? Give up oil tomorrow, give up jobs that provide for their families, and... what exactly do they do next? It's a process, it'll take time. https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124.39?search=supercharger&name=us https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124... You're clearly clueless and haven't ever been to North Dakota. Understand that most roads aren't paved, many people live in rural areas, when it rains... we're talking massive washouts and mud you can't drive a car through. Mud that a 4-wheel drive pickup gets stuck in. And you're there saying those people, and everyone, should just instantly overnight drive a Tesla. Smart.
    - marssaxman 10y ago
      Refusing to authorize the construction of more petroleum-extraction infrastructure is a great way to spur market-based activity toward switching away from petroleum. If fossil fuels are cheap, people will keep using them. When fossil fuels become more expensive than the alternatives, people will switch. We do not have very much time left - we've been hanging out in the "interim" you propose for at least thirty years now, which is as long as I've been aware of the issue - so we really do need to push on both ends of this equation.
      - dbg31415 10y ago
        First, it hasn't been 30 years. The Tesla is the first sort-of-viable alternative to most cars that hit the market. And... I say "sort-of-viable" because you can't tow a horse trailer or throw hay bales off the back of a Tesla. So... see my previous comment, it's not a viable alternative. The oil pipeline represents the kind of economic engine that allows the people of North Dakota to be able to afford Teslas. Look at the state... it's filled with industrious people (very very low unemployment rate), who make not a lot of money (very very low average wage). Besides, nobody is talking about NOT having a pipeline, they're just talking about moving it. One way or the other a pipeline is getting built, it's just a matter of 10-15 miles one way or the other. If I'm hearing you right, you'd rather ship oil from over seas (the amount of carbon released is staggering), or ship it via truck, because building a pipeline is wrong and bad and evil. Because... why exactly? It'll be a generation or more before we're off petroleum, won't happen over night. Does it make sense to be less efficient, and make it harder for the people in that state to earn money, while we wait? The pipeline will function for the rest of our lives... we aren't getting off fossil fuels that quickly. Think about not only cars, but pickups, tractors, construction equipment... on our ranch we had a 50+ year-old bulldozer that we still used. Those sorts of big-engine items won't be replaced by solar power for a lifetime or more. Not like we could have afforded to buy a new bulldozer... fossil fuels... plan on them being here for our lifetimes. I understand climate change, I don't think it's a great thing, but it's just the world we live in.
- neekburm 10y ago
  What do you call a wumao in the U.S.? A fifty-center? Let's just call him a wumao.