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I hadn't considered the removal of the esc key from a vi/emacs perspective. Is this something that can be lived with?

by fergie 10y ago

rcarmo 10y ago
I use ctrl+C instead of Esc in vim all the time (quite useful on iPad keyboards as well) plus you can remap the Caps Lock key as stated in TFA.
zeeveener 10y ago
Apparently using TAB or CAPS LOCK instead of ESC is a pretty popular alternative. I haven't tried it myself, but I have heard of it.
- hellofunk 10y ago
  I have caps-a mapped to Esc but still find myself hitting escape just as often.
pyrophane 10y ago
For vim either map a key sequence "jj" or "fd" to esc or remap caps lock to esc. Many vim users do that anyway for the convenience. Not sure about emacs (I use spacemacs). Does esc come in for more than just cancelling commands? If you don't need to use your caps lock for ctrl for emacs, the same remap to esc would work as well. Anyway, basically boils down to two things: 1) the touch bar escape is fine for occasional use but I wouldn't want to use it frequently and 2) that isn't a problem if you don't mind remapping caps lock and have nothing more important to do with it.
- duozerk 10y ago
  Emacs user here, I think I never use escape; I use C-g to cancel a command.
  - hellofunk 10y ago
    The idea behind evil mode in emacs is to not use the control or meta keys for most things, since they are awkwardly placed. Evil mode activates the Esc key just like in vim. evil-escape module for evil mode adds the 'fd' functionality discussed here.
tastythrowaway2 10y ago
I've always used Ctrl-[ instead of escape. it sends the same character code but keeps my hands at the home row. great for when you're on a roll and don't want to break your flow.
- hellofunk 10y ago
  Which is why 'fd' as a key combo is even more useful than Ctrl-[. The keys are right there on the home row buttons themselves!
  - x0x0 10y ago
    but f is one of the best commands in vim (fX finds the next instance of X on that line only; F does the same but backwards; t/T forward/backward search and put the cursor to the left of the next instance of the following char on that line). X is a char not a regex; f. will find the next period. if we use carat for cursor, this is a line of text ^ typing ft does this is a line of text ^ whereas tt would this is a line of text ^
    - hellofunk 10y ago
      But fd is for escaping insert mode. The commands you are talking about are not used in insert mode. That is the entire point of fd.
jimmaswell 10y ago
By just getting a real laptop, yes. I can't believe how often Apple gets away with taking away core functionality like headphone jacks and vga ports, but unfortunately as long as there's an Apple logo on it then people will buy it, for an absurd markup. I wonder if the Apple Car will have no parking brake because it's not used often enough.
- hellofunk 10y ago
  Actually, the Apple Car is more aggressive: they got rid of the car itself! (because they decided not to make one, actually)
  - jimmaswell 10y ago
    It was a hypothetical. Apparently they did actually consider making a car, which I didn't know.
micheljones 10y ago
I remap Caps-Lock to a Ctrl/Esc combination: When it's pressed and released on its own, it sends an Esc; when it's used as a modifier key (pressed together with another key), it sends a Ctrl. I haven't touched the Esc key in years. When you consider what the keyboard layout on the machine on which vi was made looked like: http://xahlee.info/kbd/i/vi/terminal_ADM-3A_keyboard.jpg http://xahlee.info/kbd/i/vi/terminal_ADM-3A_keyboard.jpg , it's easy to understand why dual-use caps-lock makes the usage feel smoother and more natural than on regular PC keyboard layout. For anyone that would like to do this, here are example instructions for both Linux and MacOS: http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-remap-make-that-caps-lock-key-useful/ http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-remap-...
Obi_Juan_Kenobi 10y ago
Make sure you try out the 'fake' esc key. I was expecting this to be a problem, but in practice I didn't really notice the difference. Granted, this was just messing around in the store, but I was pleasantly surprised.
lobster_johnson 10y ago
See my other comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13098257 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13098257. I don't use vi or Emacs, but I still use the Escape key constantly. tl;dr: If you, like me, touch-type and work very fast, then the absence of tactile feedback on the new Esc is unnerving. It's like a work-stopper. Even if something did happen when you hit it, the lack of feedback means your brain automatically thinks you didn't hit anything. I don't know if this is something one gets used to. After a week, it's still awful.

I hadn't considered the removal of the esc key from a vi/emacs perspective. Is this something that can be lived with?

by fergie 10y ago

I hadn't considered the removal of the esc key from a vi/emacs perspective. Is this something that can be lived with?

I use ctrl+C instead of Esc in vim all the time (quite useful on iPad keyboards as well) plus you can remap the Caps Lock key as stated in TFA.

zeeveener 10y ago

Apparently using TAB or CAPS LOCK instead of ESC is a pretty popular alternative. I haven't tried it myself, but I have heard of it.

hellofunk 10y ago
I have caps-a mapped to Esc but still find myself hitting escape just as often.

pyrophane 10y ago

For vim either map a key sequence "jj" or "fd" to esc or remap caps lock to esc. Many vim users do that anyway for the convenience. Not sure about emacs (I use spacemacs). Does esc come in for more than just cancelling commands? If you don't need to use your caps lock for ctrl for emacs, the same remap to esc would work as well. Anyway, basically boils down to two things: 1) the touch bar escape is fine for occasional use but I wouldn't want to use it frequently and 2) that isn't a problem if you don't mind remapping caps lock and have nothing more important to do with it.

duozerk 10y ago
Emacs user here, I think I never use escape; I use C-g to cancel a command.
- hellofunk 10y ago
  The idea behind evil mode in emacs is to not use the control or meta keys for most things, since they are awkwardly placed. Evil mode activates the Esc key just like in vim. evil-escape module for evil mode adds the 'fd' functionality discussed here.

tastythrowaway2 10y ago

I've always used Ctrl-[ instead of escape. it sends the same character code but keeps my hands at the home row. great for when you're on a roll and don't want to break your flow.

hellofunk 10y ago
Which is why 'fd' as a key combo is even more useful than Ctrl-[. The keys are right there on the home row buttons themselves!
- x0x0 10y ago
  but f is one of the best commands in vim (fX finds the next instance of X on that line only; F does the same but backwards; t/T forward/backward search and put the cursor to the left of the next instance of the following char on that line). X is a char not a regex; f. will find the next period. if we use carat for cursor, this is a line of text ^ typing ft does this is a line of text ^ whereas tt would this is a line of text ^
  - hellofunk 10y ago
    But fd is for escaping insert mode. The commands you are talking about are not used in insert mode. That is the entire point of fd.

jimmaswell 10y ago

By just getting a real laptop, yes. I can't believe how often Apple gets away with taking away core functionality like headphone jacks and vga ports, but unfortunately as long as there's an Apple logo on it then people will buy it, for an absurd markup. I wonder if the Apple Car will have no parking brake because it's not used often enough.

hellofunk 10y ago
Actually, the Apple Car is more aggressive: they got rid of the car itself! (because they decided not to make one, actually)
- jimmaswell 10y ago
  It was a hypothetical. Apparently they did actually consider making a car, which I didn't know.

micheljones 10y ago

I remap Caps-Lock to a Ctrl/Esc combination: When it's pressed and released on its own, it sends an Esc; when it's used as a modifier key (pressed together with another key), it sends a Ctrl. I haven't touched the Esc key in years. When you consider what the keyboard layout on the machine on which vi was made looked like: http://xahlee.info/kbd/i/vi/terminal_ADM-3A_keyboard.jpg http://xahlee.info/kbd/i/vi/terminal_ADM-3A_keyboard.jpg , it's easy to understand why dual-use caps-lock makes the usage feel smoother and more natural than on regular PC keyboard layout. For anyone that would like to do this, here are example instructions for both Linux and MacOS: http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-remap-make-that-caps-lock-key-useful/ http://www.economyofeffort.com/2014/08/11/beyond-ctrl-remap-...

Obi_Juan_Kenobi 10y ago

Make sure you try out the 'fake' esc key. I was expecting this to be a problem, but in practice I didn't really notice the difference. Granted, this was just messing around in the store, but I was pleasantly surprised.

lobster_johnson 10y ago

See my other comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13098257 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13098257. I don't use vi or Emacs, but I still use the Escape key constantly. tl;dr: If you, like me, touch-type and work very fast, then the absence of tactile feedback on the new Esc is unnerving. It's like a work-stopper. Even if something did happen when you hit it, the lack of feedback means your brain automatically thinks you didn't hit anything. I don't know if this is something one gets used to. After a week, it's still awful.