6 ms·

>>How does a programmer evaluate this machine without discussing at least one of vi and emacs, and the absence of real Esc and Fn keys? What percentage of prog

>>How does a programmer evaluate this machine without discussing at least one of vi and emacs, and the absence of real Esc and Fn keys? What percentage of programmers use vi or emacs?

drawkbox 10y ago
Use or say they use? vi and emacs are alot like some programming books people say they have read to show they are a programmer because they think that it what it means. My guess, < 10% with all the IDEs and text editors out there today. On servers or VMs they are common, in actually coding, probably overstated.
- nol13 10y ago
  Admit I use nano whenever editing through ssh, fake escape key was still the first thought through my mind when I saw that though. They at least have a little braille bump where escape is supposed to be? (if not new accessory opportunity? can i get a design patent on that?)
- ardaozkal 10y ago
  My laptop's top left corner of keyboard recently stopped working (new one shipped), and well, I've only then realized how much I use vim. I don't use it for programming, but well, it's the text editor I use the most for config files. I had to install a virtual keyboard (onboard) just to be able to press esc. So, while no esc isn't be a reason to not buy the new mbp for me (price, lack of magsafe and the dongle madness are the reasons I don't buy, though), it is still be very, very annoying.
- x0x0 10y ago
  intellij has a vi mode that doesn't suck
- anonbanker 10y ago
  Mac users are poseurs, got it.
threeseed 10y ago
Quite a lot. If you are doing anything on remote servers it's likely to be the only text editor. But I guarantee you that 99.999% of them only know (and need to know) the basics e.g. saving file, search, find/replace etc. I would say maybe 1% of developers actually use them as an IDE given how poor they are compared to something like IntelliJ or Visual Studio.
- buckhx 10y ago
  1% is WWWAAAYYY too low. The stack overflow survey in a sibling comment had 30%. Some of us don't love all the baggage that comes with a full IDE.
  - lsadam0 10y ago
    I would bet that it's really in the single digit range. I think lots of programmers dishonestly claim to use it because its some sort of badge of honor to say you do.
    - intrasight 10y ago
      Is more from old habits than a badge of honor. Fewer new developers use emacs or vi for coding. But I think "single digits" is too low too. I've been to talks by Microsoft engineers where they code using vi or emacs. One of the reasons is that the IDEs are always a step behind the languages.
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        > One of the reasons is that the IDEs are always a step behind the languages. Depends on the language, some of them are IDE friendly, e.g. Java, C#, Eiffel, VB, Delphi, C++ Builder,
    - addicted 10y ago
      A lot of developers who use IDEs Ike Visual Studio also use VI style bindings with modal development styles within those IDEs. When Visual Studio Code came out, the VIM extension was one of the most sought after.
smonff 10y ago
Something around 30℅ https://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#technology-development-environments https://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#tec...

>>How does a programmer evaluate this machine without discussing at least one of vi and emacs, and the absence of real Esc and Fn keys? What percentage of programmers use vi or emacs?

drawkbox 10y ago

Use or say they use? vi and emacs are alot like some programming books people say they have read to show they are a programmer because they think that it what it means. My guess, < 10% with all the IDEs and text editors out there today. On servers or VMs they are common, in actually coding, probably overstated.

nol13 10y ago
Admit I use nano whenever editing through ssh, fake escape key was still the first thought through my mind when I saw that though. They at least have a little braille bump where escape is supposed to be? (if not new accessory opportunity? can i get a design patent on that?)
ardaozkal 10y ago
My laptop's top left corner of keyboard recently stopped working (new one shipped), and well, I've only then realized how much I use vim. I don't use it for programming, but well, it's the text editor I use the most for config files. I had to install a virtual keyboard (onboard) just to be able to press esc. So, while no esc isn't be a reason to not buy the new mbp for me (price, lack of magsafe and the dongle madness are the reasons I don't buy, though), it is still be very, very annoying.
x0x0 10y ago
intellij has a vi mode that doesn't suck
anonbanker 10y ago
Mac users are poseurs, got it.

threeseed 10y ago

Quite a lot. If you are doing anything on remote servers it's likely to be the only text editor. But I guarantee you that 99.999% of them only know (and need to know) the basics e.g. saving file, search, find/replace etc. I would say maybe 1% of developers actually use them as an IDE given how poor they are compared to something like IntelliJ or Visual Studio.

buckhx 10y ago
1% is WWWAAAYYY too low. The stack overflow survey in a sibling comment had 30%. Some of us don't love all the baggage that comes with a full IDE.
- lsadam0 10y ago
  I would bet that it's really in the single digit range. I think lots of programmers dishonestly claim to use it because its some sort of badge of honor to say you do.
  - intrasight 10y ago
    Is more from old habits than a badge of honor. Fewer new developers use emacs or vi for coding. But I think "single digits" is too low too. I've been to talks by Microsoft engineers where they code using vi or emacs. One of the reasons is that the IDEs are always a step behind the languages.
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      > One of the reasons is that the IDEs are always a step behind the languages. Depends on the language, some of them are IDE friendly, e.g. Java, C#, Eiffel, VB, Delphi, C++ Builder,
  - addicted 10y ago
    A lot of developers who use IDEs Ike Visual Studio also use VI style bindings with modal development styles within those IDEs. When Visual Studio Code came out, the VIM extension was one of the most sought after.

smonff 10y ago

Something around 30℅ https://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#technology-development-environments https://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#tec...