3 ms·

BTW, I upvoted and vouched the OP. To reiterate, stiffling speech is not helping. It is a crude comment for sure. But still.

icebraining 10y ago
But it's not just crude; it's both ignorant (there are millions of Muslims in the EU already, not "letting them in" is not a solution) and disgusting in its support for the political groups that damaged Europe at a level much greater than any radical Muslims could ever hope to. It's comments like those that derail reasonable conversations and make people like me want to stay the fuck away.
- the-dude 10y ago
  I have reread his comment now repeatedly and let us take it apart. 1. "Why let them in in the first place? Why this obsession western Europe has with self destruction?" Although loaded, these are questions. Maybe we should be able to answer these to this angry citizen. Apparently we failed. 2. "I'm soooooo looking forward to the rise of the far right" So here he is suggesting his solution. Well, that is just his opinion man. 3. "of all the news, of my girlfriend telling me how she doesn't feel secure walking alone in the city, I'm just so fucking tired of all of this, and over time it's just going to get worse." And here he is describing how he feels and how it affects him.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    I don't disagree with you; I'd like an answer too. But our collective failure to come up with one doesn't justify every reaction. In a very real way, supporting the far-right is supporting terrorists[1]. And if we can excuse that, how can we blame extremist Muslims for supporting their own version? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#Europe
  - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
    >"I'm soooooo looking forward to the rise of the far right" Millions of people have died under far-right regimes. Cheering them on is not funny and it's not an ordinary opinion. It is cheering for an ideology that has murdered millions of people within living memory.
    - izirik 10y ago
      More people died under far-left regimes. But somehow cheering them is funny and cool, especially in the SV tech community. Just take a look on recent HN comments on Castro or Venezuela. Everyone criticizing these far-left regimes or ideologies were getting downvoted to hell and flagged. I am pretty sure that OP would prefer some more centered political forces to solve the problem. But so far any other forces do not want even to admit its existence.
      - icebraining 10y ago
        Everyone criticizing these far-left regimes or ideologies were getting downvoted to hell and flagged. Not only is that irrelevant in this discussion, as it's downright false. Many people were calling Castro evil and getting upvoted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13043663 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13043663 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13043292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13043292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13044334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13044334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042486 There are many more, I got tired after scrolling about 30% of the thread.
      - dang 10y ago
        That is factually false, as icebraining went through the tedium of demonstrating. We've asked you many times to stop doing this, and you appear to have responded by creating new accounts to keep doing what we asked you not to do, and worse, using them in the same thread to create the false appearance of multiple voices. These behaviors are bannable offences on Hacker News, so we've banned your accounts. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com. We unban accounts if their owners give us reason to believe that they'll change and use the site as intended from now on.
- piotrjurkiewicz 10y ago
  > (there are millions of Muslims in the EU already, not "letting them in" is not a solution) 50 years ago: "We will let in just couple of thousands, such a small amount cannot induce any problems." Now: "Muslims started generating problems, but there are so many of them, that not "letting them in" is not a solution anymore. So we must keep letting them in..."
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Stop distorting my words. I never said we must let anyone in.
    - AckSyn 10y ago
      you said, and I quote: > (there are millions of Muslims in the EU already, not "letting them in" is not a solution)
      - icebraining 10y ago
        Yes. Not letting them in is not a solution to the problem. It might still be something we should do, but it won't fix what's worrying vuanotinz.
    - izirik 10y ago
      > I never said we must let anyone in. Not stopping anyone means letting anyone in.
      - icebraining 10y ago
        I didn't say it shouldn't be stopped. I said it's not a solution to the problem.
  - dang 10y ago
    We've banned your account for repeatedly ignoring our requests to stop using HN for political battle, and for other apparent abuses, such as employing multiple accounts in the same thread.

icebraining 10y ago

But it's not just crude; it's both ignorant (there are millions of Muslims in the EU already, not "letting them in" is not a solution) and disgusting in its support for the political groups that damaged Europe at a level much greater than any radical Muslims could ever hope to. It's comments like those that derail reasonable conversations and make people like me want to stay the fuck away.

the-dude 10y ago
I have reread his comment now repeatedly and let us take it apart. 1. "Why let them in in the first place? Why this obsession western Europe has with self destruction?" Although loaded, these are questions. Maybe we should be able to answer these to this angry citizen. Apparently we failed. 2. "I'm soooooo looking forward to the rise of the far right" So here he is suggesting his solution. Well, that is just his opinion man. 3. "of all the news, of my girlfriend telling me how she doesn't feel secure walking alone in the city, I'm just so fucking tired of all of this, and over time it's just going to get worse." And here he is describing how he feels and how it affects him.
- icebraining 10y ago
  I don't disagree with you; I'd like an answer too. But our collective failure to come up with one doesn't justify every reaction. In a very real way, supporting the far-right is supporting terrorists[1]. And if we can excuse that, how can we blame extremist Muslims for supporting their own version? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#Europe
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  >"I'm soooooo looking forward to the rise of the far right" Millions of people have died under far-right regimes. Cheering them on is not funny and it's not an ordinary opinion. It is cheering for an ideology that has murdered millions of people within living memory.
  - izirik 10y ago
    More people died under far-left regimes. But somehow cheering them is funny and cool, especially in the SV tech community. Just take a look on recent HN comments on Castro or Venezuela. Everyone criticizing these far-left regimes or ideologies were getting downvoted to hell and flagged. I am pretty sure that OP would prefer some more centered political forces to solve the problem. But so far any other forces do not want even to admit its existence.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      Everyone criticizing these far-left regimes or ideologies were getting downvoted to hell and flagged. Not only is that irrelevant in this discussion, as it's downright false. Many people were calling Castro evil and getting upvoted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13043663 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13043663 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042972 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13043292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13043292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13044334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13044334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13042486 There are many more, I got tired after scrolling about 30% of the thread.
    - dang 10y ago
      That is factually false, as icebraining went through the tedium of demonstrating. We've asked you many times to stop doing this, and you appear to have responded by creating new accounts to keep doing what we asked you not to do, and worse, using them in the same thread to create the false appearance of multiple voices. These behaviors are bannable offences on Hacker News, so we've banned your accounts. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com. We unban accounts if their owners give us reason to believe that they'll change and use the site as intended from now on.
piotrjurkiewicz 10y ago
> (there are millions of Muslims in the EU already, not "letting them in" is not a solution) 50 years ago: "We will let in just couple of thousands, such a small amount cannot induce any problems." Now: "Muslims started generating problems, but there are so many of them, that not "letting them in" is not a solution anymore. So we must keep letting them in..."
- icebraining 10y ago
  Stop distorting my words. I never said we must let anyone in.
  - AckSyn 10y ago
    you said, and I quote: > (there are millions of Muslims in the EU already, not "letting them in" is not a solution)
    - icebraining 10y ago
      Yes. Not letting them in is not a solution to the problem. It might still be something we should do, but it won't fix what's worrying vuanotinz.
  - izirik 10y ago
    > I never said we must let anyone in. Not stopping anyone means letting anyone in.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      I didn't say it shouldn't be stopped. I said it's not a solution to the problem.
- dang 10y ago
  We've banned your account for repeatedly ignoring our requests to stop using HN for political battle, and for other apparent abuses, such as employing multiple accounts in the same thread.