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That's pretty funny. I've been using Solidworks for somewhere around 12 to 14 years. I also run Siemens NX. Clarification: Not saying it's impossible to learn

That's pretty funny. I've been using Solidworks for somewhere around 12 to 14 years. I also run Siemens NX. Clarification: Not saying it's impossible to learn. All I am saying is that a very, very, very, very small percentage of 3D printer buyers develop the chops. Don't confuse an intuitive UI with mechanical design. It's the difference between the intuitive UI of a word processor and writing a novel. The same could be said of, say, Python. Easy to learn from a few videos on YouTube. There's a vast difference between that and actually producing good, efficient, fast, sophisticated and accurate software. I've been programming, designing hardware and electronics for over twenty years. There is no way anyone can obtain the equivalent chops and experience from a bunch of videos on YouTube. Maybe they can learn to use Altium Designer, Solidworks, a compiler or two and Xilinx's FPGA toolset. That does not mean they can actually design products at all. That takes years or learning and dedication and is hard. Learning to drive Solidworks from a few YouTube videos does not make that person a mechanical engineer or a mechanical designer beyond the basics. Example, unrelated to 3D printing: Design a differential, cable-driven wrist actuator with 3 degrees of freedom. Use a combination of 3D printing, machined parts and off-the-shelf hardware. Use SW to run load analysis on the parts and assemblies. Calculate allowable dimensional tolerances. Produce mechanical drawings with annotations for class of fit of various components as required. Now make the entire assembly (all components) parametrically driven by a reference sketch. Automatically produce a new set of prints and revisions if any dimension is changed. In other words, if you change one gear all other components in the actuator redefine themselves based on the new gear and so does the assembly. If the new gear is large enough to accommodate four mounting holes rather than two, it should implement those changes automatically. I still hold that creating anything truly useful for 3D printing requires background that most people don't have and are not interested obtaining through hard, self-directed work.

WillPostForFood 10y ago
What you are saying is true, but you are also setting a ridiculously high standards with examples like "differential, cable-driven wrist actuator with 3 degrees of freedom." There is a lot of room between that and what a beginner in solidworks or tinkercad or blender can do. Just some time browsing Tinkercad's gallery of things. I promise you most aren't products of mechanical engineers (nor will they threaten the jobs of mechanical engineers. https://www.tinkercad.com/things/ https://www.tinkercad.com/things/
- jjeaff 10y ago
  Exactly. I don't need a 3d printer to build my own cable driven wrist actuator. I just need to print a beefed up version of that weak hinge you included because you spent so much time building a fancy 3d model in solidworks that you forgot to test your final creation in real world conditions.
  - rebootthesystem 10y ago
    > spent so much time building a fancy 3d model in solidworks that you forgot to test your final creation in real world conditions And that, almost precisely, betrays a lack of understanding of mechanical (or electrical, or architectural, etc.) design. CAD is a tool for documentation and, to some extent, verification. A mechanical engineer (or self-taught designer) isn't made by being able to use the tool. Mechanical design starts with a fundamental understanding of principles, techniques, structures, familiarity with historical solutions to similar problems and a deep understanding of DFM as well as DFMEA. CAD isn't about creating fancy 3D models at all. You can use 3D CAD to design things that are impossible to make. I think you are equating 3D CAD with mechanical design, which isn't quite right.
davidivadavid 10y ago
But that's true of anything non-trivial. What would be some resources one could use to step up from Solidworks warrior to "decent enough at mechanical design that you wouldn't make a pro cringe"?
- rebootthesystem 10y ago
  Experience. Make lots of mistakes. Build things. Read. A lot. I would also add, ironically: No 3D printing. It's very interesting to see young engineers do such things as specify, for example, an array of 0.250 in holes spaced 0.750 in apart and require a tolerance of 0.001 in. You then take that same engineer into the shop and ask them to drill just two of those holes. The surprise in their expressions when they can't produce a single good pair of holes is very telling. 3D printing doesn't teach you about mechanical design and manufacturing any more than a word processor teaches you about good typesetting and layout. So, I'd say, design things and make them by hand using hand tools, manual milling machines, manual lathes, etc. Just drilling a single precisely positioned and accurately dimension-ed round hole can require an hour of work, if not more. There's a reason professionals call it "hole manufacturing" rather than "drilling". You need at least three tools to manufacture precise round holes. Anyone who thinks that drill bits are for making round holes needs to go do some research.
  - davidivadavid 10y ago
    Book recommendations appreciated.
    - rebootthesystem 10y ago
      Impossible to boil it down to one book. So many disciplines. I would suggest you get a copy of Machinery's Handbook and study it. There are also books that are collections of mechanisms. I probably have ten of them. There are some online resources today with animated versions of mechanisms. Google is your friend here. Learn about materials. What's the difference between mild steel, hot rolled steel, stainless steel, 6061, 7075 and MIC-6 Aluminum. What do you use, when and why? Research topics such as "hole manufacturing" and "high speed machining". Read online forums such as "Practical Machinist", ask questions. Learn about Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing. If you don't have a background in Physics, learn some. Mechanics and Heat would be the basics. Don't need Calculus for the fundamentals. Plastics is a topic in and of itself. Study injection molding. Visit sites like Protolabs, read through all of their materials. Understand their process. Learn about conventional injection molding. Learn about analyzing structures/designs for strength, deflection, etc. Do this by hand first with simple shapes. Learn FEA (Finite Element Analysis) and apply it to both mechanical and thermal analysis of designs. Understand how to use fasteners. You'd be surprised how many people don't understand such basics ideas as "you never use a screw for positioning, only for clamping". Read about finishing: paint, powder-coating, ceramic coating, electroplating, anodizing, porcelain enamel coating, chromate, passivation, texturing, sand blasting, brushing, chemical etching, etc. Learn about laser and water-jet manufacturing processes and when to use them. If you have access (or the money) get yourself in front of a milling machine or lathe (or both) and learn to take parts from CAD to finished product. Not trivial. Don't need a big sophisticated machine to do this. A mid-size bench-top mill and lathe will do. No CNC. Manual first. Design and fabricate all the parts needed to convert your mill and lathe to CNC. Now learn CNC machining. There's more, lots more. For example, adhesives is a huge topic. Lubricants is another. Composites. Casting. Extruding. Sheet Metal. Die casting. Etc. Yet another huge topic is understanding all of the above in the context of costs and manufacturing efficiency. What's the consequence of designing a rectangular hole with 0.005 in radius corners on an aluminum part to be machined? When do you switch between extruding and machining and why? When do you completely redesign a part in order to better fit the best manufacturing process? What are the implications and manufacturing realities of requiring extreme accuracy? You are not going to pick all of this up in a week or a year. It takes time, years. I've put my hands on most of the above during my career, but I am talking about 30 years designing and manufacturing all kinds of products. Don't expect instant results. That, BTW, is why becoming a Solidworks "driver" does not make someone a mechanical designer. Solidworks is simply a design documentation tool. Becoming good at driving the software will not provide anyone with any of the knowledge listed above. Better done in the context of actually working rather than tinkering. You don't have to become an expert at all of these either. Almost no such thing any more. Yet, it really pays to have as wide an understanding of manufacturing as possible. 3D printing is an almost insignificant segment of the totality of manufacturing.
analognoise 10y ago
If we were interested in that background, where would we start? Already an EE, also have seriously high bar and want to know more.
- rebootthesystem 10y ago
  I'd look online for mechanical engineering courses. If anything you can put together a curriculum and slowly follow it. It's hard to make a recommendation. I did not learn mechanical design formally. Also an EE. However, mechanical has always been a part of my life since I was a teenager. The only way I can summarize my path is: doing thousands of projects and constantly learning.
LoSboccacc 10y ago
I agree there's a wide gap between modeling and designing workable parts, but parameterized modeling mechanism is kind of out of scope for home printers. And while I guass many won't know about tolerances as intimately as professional most of the time guesswork and trials will be good enough for home appliances. It's not like everyone will build robotic arms with articulate hands as phrotesis on repraps.
contingencies 10y ago
Do you have any recommendations for embarking on that path of hard, self-directed work? My co-founder at http://8-food.com/ http://8-food.com/ and I are at the earliest section of that path right now and - while we are attempting to optimize for manufacturing by assembling primarily from pre-existing commercially available components - do recognize the need to improve our presently nearly nonexistent mechanical engineering skills.
- rebootthesystem 10y ago
  In your case you are either trying to deliver a product or educate yourself. It is very, very hard to do both. Particularly if you are, as you said, starting with "nonexistent mechanical engineering skills". A lot goes into a product that is reliable, durable and manufacturable. This would take a lot of time and errors to learn. A better formula is to hire someone or a company well versed in that part of things. Focus on your core competency. People like me are able to do what we do because, at some level, we are a product of a different generation. I was disassembling and rebuilding engines and modifying cars in my driveway when I was 16 years old. I designed and built my first computer from raw chips when I was 18 and wrote my first OS out of hand-keyed hex machine codes afterwards. Today I've worked with young engineers who openly admit not being good at soldering and know PhD's who have trouble assembling Ikea furniture. Not sure what it is, but it sure seems engineering is being done differently these days. Back then, if you went into any of the engineering fields it was very likely you tinkered ad nauseum way before hitting college. Not so these days. What I am saying is that as an electrical engineer by schooling I had already done tons of mechanical, software, optical and other work and picking up some aspects of these other fields over the years was an organic process. Starting from "nonexistent mechanical engineering skills", well, that's a bad place to start. Driving CAD isn't going to make you a mechanical product designer.

WillPostForFood 10y ago

What you are saying is true, but you are also setting a ridiculously high standards with examples like "differential, cable-driven wrist actuator with 3 degrees of freedom." There is a lot of room between that and what a beginner in solidworks or tinkercad or blender can do. Just some time browsing Tinkercad's gallery of things. I promise you most aren't products of mechanical engineers (nor will they threaten the jobs of mechanical engineers. https://www.tinkercad.com/things/ https://www.tinkercad.com/things/

jjeaff 10y ago
Exactly. I don't need a 3d printer to build my own cable driven wrist actuator. I just need to print a beefed up version of that weak hinge you included because you spent so much time building a fancy 3d model in solidworks that you forgot to test your final creation in real world conditions.
- rebootthesystem 10y ago
  > spent so much time building a fancy 3d model in solidworks that you forgot to test your final creation in real world conditions And that, almost precisely, betrays a lack of understanding of mechanical (or electrical, or architectural, etc.) design. CAD is a tool for documentation and, to some extent, verification. A mechanical engineer (or self-taught designer) isn't made by being able to use the tool. Mechanical design starts with a fundamental understanding of principles, techniques, structures, familiarity with historical solutions to similar problems and a deep understanding of DFM as well as DFMEA. CAD isn't about creating fancy 3D models at all. You can use 3D CAD to design things that are impossible to make. I think you are equating 3D CAD with mechanical design, which isn't quite right.

davidivadavid 10y ago

But that's true of anything non-trivial. What would be some resources one could use to step up from Solidworks warrior to "decent enough at mechanical design that you wouldn't make a pro cringe"?

rebootthesystem 10y ago
Experience. Make lots of mistakes. Build things. Read. A lot. I would also add, ironically: No 3D printing. It's very interesting to see young engineers do such things as specify, for example, an array of 0.250 in holes spaced 0.750 in apart and require a tolerance of 0.001 in. You then take that same engineer into the shop and ask them to drill just two of those holes. The surprise in their expressions when they can't produce a single good pair of holes is very telling. 3D printing doesn't teach you about mechanical design and manufacturing any more than a word processor teaches you about good typesetting and layout. So, I'd say, design things and make them by hand using hand tools, manual milling machines, manual lathes, etc. Just drilling a single precisely positioned and accurately dimension-ed round hole can require an hour of work, if not more. There's a reason professionals call it "hole manufacturing" rather than "drilling". You need at least three tools to manufacture precise round holes. Anyone who thinks that drill bits are for making round holes needs to go do some research.
- davidivadavid 10y ago
  Book recommendations appreciated.
  - rebootthesystem 10y ago
    Impossible to boil it down to one book. So many disciplines. I would suggest you get a copy of Machinery's Handbook and study it. There are also books that are collections of mechanisms. I probably have ten of them. There are some online resources today with animated versions of mechanisms. Google is your friend here. Learn about materials. What's the difference between mild steel, hot rolled steel, stainless steel, 6061, 7075 and MIC-6 Aluminum. What do you use, when and why? Research topics such as "hole manufacturing" and "high speed machining". Read online forums such as "Practical Machinist", ask questions. Learn about Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing. If you don't have a background in Physics, learn some. Mechanics and Heat would be the basics. Don't need Calculus for the fundamentals. Plastics is a topic in and of itself. Study injection molding. Visit sites like Protolabs, read through all of their materials. Understand their process. Learn about conventional injection molding. Learn about analyzing structures/designs for strength, deflection, etc. Do this by hand first with simple shapes. Learn FEA (Finite Element Analysis) and apply it to both mechanical and thermal analysis of designs. Understand how to use fasteners. You'd be surprised how many people don't understand such basics ideas as "you never use a screw for positioning, only for clamping". Read about finishing: paint, powder-coating, ceramic coating, electroplating, anodizing, porcelain enamel coating, chromate, passivation, texturing, sand blasting, brushing, chemical etching, etc. Learn about laser and water-jet manufacturing processes and when to use them. If you have access (or the money) get yourself in front of a milling machine or lathe (or both) and learn to take parts from CAD to finished product. Not trivial. Don't need a big sophisticated machine to do this. A mid-size bench-top mill and lathe will do. No CNC. Manual first. Design and fabricate all the parts needed to convert your mill and lathe to CNC. Now learn CNC machining. There's more, lots more. For example, adhesives is a huge topic. Lubricants is another. Composites. Casting. Extruding. Sheet Metal. Die casting. Etc. Yet another huge topic is understanding all of the above in the context of costs and manufacturing efficiency. What's the consequence of designing a rectangular hole with 0.005 in radius corners on an aluminum part to be machined? When do you switch between extruding and machining and why? When do you completely redesign a part in order to better fit the best manufacturing process? What are the implications and manufacturing realities of requiring extreme accuracy? You are not going to pick all of this up in a week or a year. It takes time, years. I've put my hands on most of the above during my career, but I am talking about 30 years designing and manufacturing all kinds of products. Don't expect instant results. That, BTW, is why becoming a Solidworks "driver" does not make someone a mechanical designer. Solidworks is simply a design documentation tool. Becoming good at driving the software will not provide anyone with any of the knowledge listed above. Better done in the context of actually working rather than tinkering. You don't have to become an expert at all of these either. Almost no such thing any more. Yet, it really pays to have as wide an understanding of manufacturing as possible. 3D printing is an almost insignificant segment of the totality of manufacturing.

analognoise 10y ago

If we were interested in that background, where would we start? Already an EE, also have seriously high bar and want to know more.

rebootthesystem 10y ago
I'd look online for mechanical engineering courses. If anything you can put together a curriculum and slowly follow it. It's hard to make a recommendation. I did not learn mechanical design formally. Also an EE. However, mechanical has always been a part of my life since I was a teenager. The only way I can summarize my path is: doing thousands of projects and constantly learning.

LoSboccacc 10y ago

I agree there's a wide gap between modeling and designing workable parts, but parameterized modeling mechanism is kind of out of scope for home printers. And while I guass many won't know about tolerances as intimately as professional most of the time guesswork and trials will be good enough for home appliances. It's not like everyone will build robotic arms with articulate hands as phrotesis on repraps.

contingencies 10y ago

Do you have any recommendations for embarking on that path of hard, self-directed work? My co-founder at http://8-food.com/ http://8-food.com/ and I are at the earliest section of that path right now and - while we are attempting to optimize for manufacturing by assembling primarily from pre-existing commercially available components - do recognize the need to improve our presently nearly nonexistent mechanical engineering skills.

rebootthesystem 10y ago
In your case you are either trying to deliver a product or educate yourself. It is very, very hard to do both. Particularly if you are, as you said, starting with "nonexistent mechanical engineering skills". A lot goes into a product that is reliable, durable and manufacturable. This would take a lot of time and errors to learn. A better formula is to hire someone or a company well versed in that part of things. Focus on your core competency. People like me are able to do what we do because, at some level, we are a product of a different generation. I was disassembling and rebuilding engines and modifying cars in my driveway when I was 16 years old. I designed and built my first computer from raw chips when I was 18 and wrote my first OS out of hand-keyed hex machine codes afterwards. Today I've worked with young engineers who openly admit not being good at soldering and know PhD's who have trouble assembling Ikea furniture. Not sure what it is, but it sure seems engineering is being done differently these days. Back then, if you went into any of the engineering fields it was very likely you tinkered ad nauseum way before hitting college. Not so these days. What I am saying is that as an electrical engineer by schooling I had already done tons of mechanical, software, optical and other work and picking up some aspects of these other fields over the years was an organic process. Starting from "nonexistent mechanical engineering skills", well, that's a bad place to start. Driving CAD isn't going to make you a mechanical product designer.