4 ms·

Some risk averse people are following one rule: Do not carry any electronics at any border crossing. It's a hostile territory.

jliptzin 10y ago
Indeed, from now on I will back up my phone to the cloud, wipe it before going over a border, then reinstalling after. It's the only sane thing to do.
- spinlock 10y ago
  lulz, you should assume the NSA has access to anything you store in the "cloud".
  - jliptzin 10y ago
    Okay but I encrypt locally first?
  - michaelcampbell 10y ago
    Of course, but they already have it, and aren't impeding my travel. The Candian Border Control guys don't, and can.
    - j1vms 10y ago
      > (...) but they already have it, and aren't impeding my travel. But don't be mistaken, that based on the Snowden revelations, "they" may not have already had it, and needed another country's intelligence agency to access it first -- for them to get to whatever it might be, and possibly even use it against you, legally.
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      The Five Eyes may actually have it - so even if border guys don't, the Canadians may have access.
- chinathrow 10y ago
  For that you would need to be able to fully trust your cloud storage provider, the ISPs used in transint to and from, the used encryption methods and last but not least: the baseband firmware of your phone.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    No, if you trust the encryption (which implies the firmware), you don't need to trust the ISP or storage provider. That's the whole point of encrypting stuff.
  - loeg 10y ago
    Perhaps still better than trusting border patrol with physical access to the device.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    Interestingly, in the case of handing over your phone, there are some odd quirks in security that make things a little topsy turvy. Normally, while the iphone has better device security, in the case where you are conceivably worried about firmware hacks (to the degree you think it's possible), the iphone presents as a juicier target, as the hardware is far more homologous.
  - twr 10y ago
    It's highly unlikely that the Canada Border Services Agency, of all organizations, is able to defeat competent modern crypto implementations. It's also quite unlikely that they can circumvent a basic `tar -c /dev/block/* | gpg -se ...` scheme that's trivially doable on unlockable Android phones. (Replacing the bootloader with a maliciously crafted variant that returns false partition data after bootup would work, but once again: CBSA.) You're probably safe if you just do an iCloud backup and wipe followed later by a restore. Certainly do replace the SIM card as soon as possible though, IMO. Unless you can verify it somehow.
    - chinathrow 10y ago
      If you are asked to provide your password, encryption will not help you.
- patmcc 10y ago
  Here's the thing though; you can do that, and it'll protect your data, but any nation can still prevent your entry for exactly that reason. "Oh, you brought an empty phone? Give me access to your cloud account. No? Ok, you're never entering our country. Bye."
  - curried_haskell 10y ago
    Ultimately yeah, they can refuse you for any reason they want and they don't have to tell you why. You're not a citizen, you don't have a right to enter.
  - dawnerd 10y ago
    Obviously you'd seed it with some fake data...
tacoman 10y ago
To me, that just makes you more suspicious. Last time I had to cross borders CAN/USA/MEX, I just popped my SIM in an old Blackberry Q10 and connected it to a lightly-used email account. Made a few calls and texts in the days leading up to trip. I reasoned that an old Blackberry is good because there really isn't much you can do with it beyond text/email/web. And it makes me look like a tech-illiterate luddite.
joering2 10y ago
I travel for few months every year to Europe to work from my home country (I work remotely). After reading so many crazy stories, I have adopted few rules: I have SSD drive that I use in States. Once I'm ready to go, I swap it with "empty" drive and fire up the OS just to get some updates on files on it, so it doesn't look like it hasn't been used for a long time. Once in Europe, I put the drive that has more tools and my files I use daily. I also use personal DropBox and the most important files are sync over the net when I login from Europe. As to the phone - my network doesn't work in Europe anyways, so instead of selling/throwing away my perfectly working Iphone5, I use it in Europe and my new phone I leave in states. Moreover I cannot say much about driving to Canada, but I was tempted once with saving $150 on a ticket and flying to Europe through Montreal instead of Chicago. That was horrible mistake. That airport is super disorganized and there is literally no staff to help you. No other information than to research for yourself. Few years ago some guy got teased to death because he was so frustrated and I don't blame him... As of the phone in US, I have jailbroken version with an app that allows me to do a triple-click to shut it down completely. I got used to using this trick when I'm pulled over by LE or entering airports or other places... just in case! I don't think I would ever give out my password without talking to a lawyer first.
- casualstroller 10y ago
  I will take YUL over ORD any day. It's a very well-organized airport. As for the "tasering", it was at YVR (Vancouver). Should I list the number of incidents at US airports?
  - monksy 10y ago
    I can't say about YUL, but ORD is very organized and very prepared for where you may travel to.
curried_haskell 10y ago
This is what I don't get. Would you carry a briefcase over the border filled with confidential documents, photos, love letters, and a porno magazine? Would you think that customs has no right to open it and ask you for the combination of the briefcase is locked? How is a cell phone any different? Asking for passwords to Facebook accounts or other information that isn't on your phone, now that's another story. When crossing the border... backup and factory reset. Don't carry anything with you over the border you don't want customs officers looking at. I just hang onto one of my older phones to use when I travel.
- xkiwi 10y ago
  It is different: Cellphone, especially smartphone nowadays, has extended reach. When your phone is taken away after they forced you enter SU level password, you have no control of it, they do. Whoever took it inside the room, they can: >Browser your email, check who you contacted since you have you email box: Why you bought this on amazon? Why you bought that from Ebay? For what reason you purchase two pressure cookers from and nails from Walmart at the same time? >Check your contacts: Who is Mr.X? When was the last time you talk to Mr. Y? What was in the conversation? >Check what you have posted on facebook/Twitter. You supported Aaron Swartz? You are in the protest called The Day we Fight Back? What was the protest about? Who you are with? >You may have home security Cam APP installed: Who sitting in the sofa? How many rooms do you have? Is this your wife? What is her social security number? What is her first name? On the day of Feb 21, 2013, who are the two male visited your home? What's their name and what's the purpose of the visit? How long they stayed in your house? What car they are diving? What is the plate number? >Copy all your photos for further investation. >Install Spyware, Copy your RSA key stored in your phone.

jliptzin 10y ago

Indeed, from now on I will back up my phone to the cloud, wipe it before going over a border, then reinstalling after. It's the only sane thing to do.

spinlock 10y ago
lulz, you should assume the NSA has access to anything you store in the "cloud".
- jliptzin 10y ago
  Okay but I encrypt locally first?
- michaelcampbell 10y ago
  Of course, but they already have it, and aren't impeding my travel. The Candian Border Control guys don't, and can.
  - j1vms 10y ago
    > (...) but they already have it, and aren't impeding my travel. But don't be mistaken, that based on the Snowden revelations, "they" may not have already had it, and needed another country's intelligence agency to access it first -- for them to get to whatever it might be, and possibly even use it against you, legally.
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    The Five Eyes may actually have it - so even if border guys don't, the Canadians may have access.
chinathrow 10y ago
For that you would need to be able to fully trust your cloud storage provider, the ISPs used in transint to and from, the used encryption methods and last but not least: the baseband firmware of your phone.
- icebraining 10y ago
  No, if you trust the encryption (which implies the firmware), you don't need to trust the ISP or storage provider. That's the whole point of encrypting stuff.
- loeg 10y ago
  Perhaps still better than trusting border patrol with physical access to the device.
- kbenson 10y ago
  Interestingly, in the case of handing over your phone, there are some odd quirks in security that make things a little topsy turvy. Normally, while the iphone has better device security, in the case where you are conceivably worried about firmware hacks (to the degree you think it's possible), the iphone presents as a juicier target, as the hardware is far more homologous.
- twr 10y ago
  It's highly unlikely that the Canada Border Services Agency, of all organizations, is able to defeat competent modern crypto implementations. It's also quite unlikely that they can circumvent a basic `tar -c /dev/block/* | gpg -se ...` scheme that's trivially doable on unlockable Android phones. (Replacing the bootloader with a maliciously crafted variant that returns false partition data after bootup would work, but once again: CBSA.) You're probably safe if you just do an iCloud backup and wipe followed later by a restore. Certainly do replace the SIM card as soon as possible though, IMO. Unless you can verify it somehow.
  - chinathrow 10y ago
    If you are asked to provide your password, encryption will not help you.
patmcc 10y ago
Here's the thing though; you can do that, and it'll protect your data, but any nation can still prevent your entry for exactly that reason. "Oh, you brought an empty phone? Give me access to your cloud account. No? Ok, you're never entering our country. Bye."
- curried_haskell 10y ago
  Ultimately yeah, they can refuse you for any reason they want and they don't have to tell you why. You're not a citizen, you don't have a right to enter.
- dawnerd 10y ago
  Obviously you'd seed it with some fake data...

tacoman 10y ago

To me, that just makes you more suspicious. Last time I had to cross borders CAN/USA/MEX, I just popped my SIM in an old Blackberry Q10 and connected it to a lightly-used email account. Made a few calls and texts in the days leading up to trip. I reasoned that an old Blackberry is good because there really isn't much you can do with it beyond text/email/web. And it makes me look like a tech-illiterate luddite.

joering2 10y ago

I travel for few months every year to Europe to work from my home country (I work remotely). After reading so many crazy stories, I have adopted few rules: I have SSD drive that I use in States. Once I'm ready to go, I swap it with "empty" drive and fire up the OS just to get some updates on files on it, so it doesn't look like it hasn't been used for a long time. Once in Europe, I put the drive that has more tools and my files I use daily. I also use personal DropBox and the most important files are sync over the net when I login from Europe. As to the phone - my network doesn't work in Europe anyways, so instead of selling/throwing away my perfectly working Iphone5, I use it in Europe and my new phone I leave in states. Moreover I cannot say much about driving to Canada, but I was tempted once with saving $150 on a ticket and flying to Europe through Montreal instead of Chicago. That was horrible mistake. That airport is super disorganized and there is literally no staff to help you. No other information than to research for yourself. Few years ago some guy got teased to death because he was so frustrated and I don't blame him... As of the phone in US, I have jailbroken version with an app that allows me to do a triple-click to shut it down completely. I got used to using this trick when I'm pulled over by LE or entering airports or other places... just in case! I don't think I would ever give out my password without talking to a lawyer first.

casualstroller 10y ago
I will take YUL over ORD any day. It's a very well-organized airport. As for the "tasering", it was at YVR (Vancouver). Should I list the number of incidents at US airports?
- monksy 10y ago
  I can't say about YUL, but ORD is very organized and very prepared for where you may travel to.

curried_haskell 10y ago

This is what I don't get. Would you carry a briefcase over the border filled with confidential documents, photos, love letters, and a porno magazine? Would you think that customs has no right to open it and ask you for the combination of the briefcase is locked? How is a cell phone any different? Asking for passwords to Facebook accounts or other information that isn't on your phone, now that's another story. When crossing the border... backup and factory reset. Don't carry anything with you over the border you don't want customs officers looking at. I just hang onto one of my older phones to use when I travel.

xkiwi 10y ago
It is different: Cellphone, especially smartphone nowadays, has extended reach. When your phone is taken away after they forced you enter SU level password, you have no control of it, they do. Whoever took it inside the room, they can: >Browser your email, check who you contacted since you have you email box: Why you bought this on amazon? Why you bought that from Ebay? For what reason you purchase two pressure cookers from and nails from Walmart at the same time? >Check your contacts: Who is Mr.X? When was the last time you talk to Mr. Y? What was in the conversation? >Check what you have posted on facebook/Twitter. You supported Aaron Swartz? You are in the protest called The Day we Fight Back? What was the protest about? Who you are with? >You may have home security Cam APP installed: Who sitting in the sofa? How many rooms do you have? Is this your wife? What is her social security number? What is her first name? On the day of Feb 21, 2013, who are the two male visited your home? What's their name and what's the purpose of the visit? How long they stayed in your house? What car they are diving? What is the plate number? >Copy all your photos for further investation. >Install Spyware, Copy your RSA key stored in your phone.