4 ms·

"I lost faith in democracy after the election because of the amount of companies and people that feel like the only way to beat Trump in the next election is to

by b1tr0t 10y ago

"I lost faith in democracy after the election because of the amount of companies and people that feel like the only way to beat Trump in the next election is to suppress the freedoms of the people that support him." Evidence of systematic suppression please? Who? What? When? Where?

mr_blobs 10y ago
It's subliminal and covert. You can't really measure it. It comes in the form of an attitude and a culture change. Sound familiar?
- dpark 10y ago
  > Sound familiar? Nope. Sounds like BS. You can't measure it? Doesn't exist, then.
  - mr_blobs 10y ago
    Good. Then the same thing applies to covert sexism and racism that's posted about constantly on HN. I'm glad we can agree on something.
    - dpark 10y ago
      Sexism and racism can be measured in meaningful ways. Even where not directly measurable (though there are direct measurements as well), their effects can be shown.
  - mr_blobs 10y ago
    Covert racism and sexism, which happens much much less than what many portray, yes. However, we aren't talking about that. We are talking about what can't be measured. The pay-wage gap for women is a good example. The left seems to think this is due to covert sexism. When you compare for education, job title, and many other factors to equal out the comparisons, there is no wage gap.
    - dpark 10y ago
      In what way is the wage gap argument even relevant here? This is a measurable thing, and people can discuss and debate actual facts. As you pointed out, some analyses of the data don't indicate a systematic bias. Regardless of what you believe, there are data and factual statements that can be made. But it's also utterly irrelevant. On the other hand, you've made the claim that a very large number of people who oppose Trump want to suppress the freedoms of his supporters. This is a falsifiable claim, but you say that it cannot be measured and you can't provide any other proof or evidence. This is commonly known as "making shit up". If this argument is valid, then I can argue that most Trump supporters secretly want to bomb England. I can't measure it or provide any evidence, but it's clearly true, because I said so.
      - mr_blobs2 10y ago
        HN is having technical difficulties, so I had to create another account. Trump supporters attacked: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trump+supporters+attacked https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trump+supporter... (Just some of the Trump supporters attacked) There were some stories popping up that minorities were also being attacked after the election. However, so many of them turned out to be made-up/fake, It's really difficult to believe that it's happening at any elevated level (especially with almost no video proof besides what someone said). http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3603345/Conservative-activist-Lauren-Southern-banned-Facebook-mentioning-censorship.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3603345/Conservative... (Facebook bans vocal Trump supporter) http://ilovemyfreedom.org/facebook-bans-trump-supporters/ http://ilovemyfreedom.org/facebook-bans-trump-supporters/ (Facebook bans trump supporter page) http://www.siliconbeat.com/2016/11/30/reddit-vows-combat-online-abuse-ceo-apologizes-editing-comments/ http://www.siliconbeat.com/2016/11/30/reddit-vows-combat-onl... (Reddit CEO edits Trump supporter comments) http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/18/trumps-digital-director-twitter-ceo-personally-censored-our-campaign/ http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/18/trumps-digital-director-tw... (Twitter actively censored Trump campaign) http://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-bans-fake-news-sites-from-using-its-advertising-network-1479175778 http://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-bans-fake-news-sites-fr... (fake news sites banned from Facebook) Fake news sites are banned from FB advertising, yet they only seem to be right-leaning. Sites like the Huffingtonpost, which has some of the most click-baity and outright fake news stories I've ever seen still gets to post their sludge on FB and get paid for it. I don't see any of the censoring happening with violent and vocal BLM supporters that call for the death of white people and police officers. In fact, Jack Dorsey is good friends with one of the leaders of the movement. Examples: http://hypeline.org/minutes-after-dallas-shooting-blm-radicals-call-for-death-of-cops-of-twitter/ http://hypeline.org/minutes-after-dallas-shooting-blm-radica... These are just a small sampling of the censoring and violence that has been happening before and after the election. It's relevant because people get fired and companies get boycotted over a highly politicized interpretation of the results, which actually is usually do to many other factors. This thought policing stops, however, when it involves something like the abuse and silencing of a political opponent or someone you don't support. I didn't even mention all of the Wikileaks that showed that almost everyone in the mainstream media was conspiring against Trump, Sanders, and all political opponents of HRC.
  - sean_patel 10y ago
    > You can't measure it? Doesn't exist, then. By that notion, do you also conclude that human don't have consciousness?
    - dpark 10y ago
      Maybe? Consciousness is pretty ill defined. If you define it such that it can be measured, then the measurement answers the question. If you define it such that it cannot be measured, then I think it's kind of meaningless.

by b1tr0t 10y ago

mr_blobs 10y ago

It's subliminal and covert. You can't really measure it. It comes in the form of an attitude and a culture change. Sound familiar?

dpark 10y ago
> Sound familiar? Nope. Sounds like BS. You can't measure it? Doesn't exist, then.
- mr_blobs 10y ago
  Good. Then the same thing applies to covert sexism and racism that's posted about constantly on HN. I'm glad we can agree on something.
  - dpark 10y ago
    Sexism and racism can be measured in meaningful ways. Even where not directly measurable (though there are direct measurements as well), their effects can be shown.
- mr_blobs 10y ago
  Covert racism and sexism, which happens much much less than what many portray, yes. However, we aren't talking about that. We are talking about what can't be measured. The pay-wage gap for women is a good example. The left seems to think this is due to covert sexism. When you compare for education, job title, and many other factors to equal out the comparisons, there is no wage gap.
  - dpark 10y ago
    In what way is the wage gap argument even relevant here? This is a measurable thing, and people can discuss and debate actual facts. As you pointed out, some analyses of the data don't indicate a systematic bias. Regardless of what you believe, there are data and factual statements that can be made. But it's also utterly irrelevant. On the other hand, you've made the claim that a very large number of people who oppose Trump want to suppress the freedoms of his supporters. This is a falsifiable claim, but you say that it cannot be measured and you can't provide any other proof or evidence. This is commonly known as "making shit up". If this argument is valid, then I can argue that most Trump supporters secretly want to bomb England. I can't measure it or provide any evidence, but it's clearly true, because I said so.
    - mr_blobs2 10y ago
      HN is having technical difficulties, so I had to create another account. Trump supporters attacked: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trump+supporters+attacked https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trump+supporter... (Just some of the Trump supporters attacked) There were some stories popping up that minorities were also being attacked after the election. However, so many of them turned out to be made-up/fake, It's really difficult to believe that it's happening at any elevated level (especially with almost no video proof besides what someone said). http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3603345/Conservative-activist-Lauren-Southern-banned-Facebook-mentioning-censorship.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3603345/Conservative... (Facebook bans vocal Trump supporter) http://ilovemyfreedom.org/facebook-bans-trump-supporters/ http://ilovemyfreedom.org/facebook-bans-trump-supporters/ (Facebook bans trump supporter page) http://www.siliconbeat.com/2016/11/30/reddit-vows-combat-online-abuse-ceo-apologizes-editing-comments/ http://www.siliconbeat.com/2016/11/30/reddit-vows-combat-onl... (Reddit CEO edits Trump supporter comments) http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/18/trumps-digital-director-twitter-ceo-personally-censored-our-campaign/ http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/18/trumps-digital-director-tw... (Twitter actively censored Trump campaign) http://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-bans-fake-news-sites-from-using-its-advertising-network-1479175778 http://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-bans-fake-news-sites-fr... (fake news sites banned from Facebook) Fake news sites are banned from FB advertising, yet they only seem to be right-leaning. Sites like the Huffingtonpost, which has some of the most click-baity and outright fake news stories I've ever seen still gets to post their sludge on FB and get paid for it. I don't see any of the censoring happening with violent and vocal BLM supporters that call for the death of white people and police officers. In fact, Jack Dorsey is good friends with one of the leaders of the movement. Examples: http://hypeline.org/minutes-after-dallas-shooting-blm-radicals-call-for-death-of-cops-of-twitter/ http://hypeline.org/minutes-after-dallas-shooting-blm-radica... These are just a small sampling of the censoring and violence that has been happening before and after the election. It's relevant because people get fired and companies get boycotted over a highly politicized interpretation of the results, which actually is usually do to many other factors. This thought policing stops, however, when it involves something like the abuse and silencing of a political opponent or someone you don't support. I didn't even mention all of the Wikileaks that showed that almost everyone in the mainstream media was conspiring against Trump, Sanders, and all political opponents of HRC.
- sean_patel 10y ago
  > You can't measure it? Doesn't exist, then. By that notion, do you also conclude that human don't have consciousness?
  - dpark 10y ago
    Maybe? Consciousness is pretty ill defined. If you define it such that it can be measured, then the measurement answers the question. If you define it such that it cannot be measured, then I think it's kind of meaningless.