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Comments like this are the reason I keep coming back to HN. People here consistently have the ability to either change my opinion, or (as in this case) articula

by J-dawg 10y ago

Comments like this are the reason I keep coming back to HN. People here consistently have the ability to either change my opinion, or (as in this case) articulate something I've always felt but not quite been able to explain. Thank you. Have you ever noticed, whenever a group of adults talks about their school days there are always lots of stories about being bullied and general unpleasant experiences. At first it seems statistically improbable - those damn bullies didn't pick on everybody did they? Maybe the truth is that kids are generally just fucking horrible to each other. That, apart from a few isolated cases, the meme of the Nelson Muntz style "school bully" is a myth. Many (most?) kids are both the bully and the bullied. This brutal experience gives us all the baggage we need to work through in the future. Maybe we should be honest about what school is really for. I always thought Paul Graham was right when he said it's really just a place to put teenagers until they're useful to society. > Now adults have no immediate use for teenagers. They would be in the way in an office. So they drop them off at school on their way to work, much as they might drop the dog off at a kennel if they were going away for the weekend. [0] [0] http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

stared 10y ago
Most of my nerdy friends were bullied. Most of my non-nerdy friends were not bullied. Or maybe other way - some may have some bulling incidents, rather than being a victim being the main story of their primary school. (And yes, being bullied does not stop one from bulling - on other occasion, in another place.)
- paulryanrogers 10y ago
  Peer exposure was important for me growing up. Despite bullying it is useful for learning to relate to others at and below one's level. And for only children that may not be available outside school. Of course with schools the ratio of peers to adults is dangerously close to Lord of the Flies.
- J-dawg 10y ago
  Admittedly my anecdotal experiences might also be affected by confirmation bias, based on the nerdiness of the people I associate with.
J-dawg 10y ago
Too late to edit so I'm replying to my own comment. I also wanted to mention that there is a place where the Lord of the Flies approach has been taken to its logical extreme, in a long-running experiment which continues to this day. That place is the British boarding school system. It messes people up so badly that it even has its own psychological condition: Boarding School Syndrome [1]. The fact that many of our political leaders come from this system should be a cause for concern. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/11662001/The-truth-about-boarding-school-syndrome.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/1166...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
NoGravitas 10y ago
People who are bullied often deal with their feelings by punching down, bullying younger or otherwise lower-status kids. It's a hard cycle to break, and I think once it gets started in a school, it's almost impossible to get rid of.
ScottBurson 10y ago
Yes -- John Holt, one of the early luminaries of the homeschooling movement [0], always used to talk about this -- that the "socialization" that happens in schools is more anti-socialization. It was common for parents to write to his newsletter that taking their kids out of school improved their behavior and morale considerably. [0] http://www.johnholtgws.com/ http://www.johnholtgws.com/

by J-dawg 10y ago

stared 10y ago

Most of my nerdy friends were bullied. Most of my non-nerdy friends were not bullied. Or maybe other way - some may have some bulling incidents, rather than being a victim being the main story of their primary school. (And yes, being bullied does not stop one from bulling - on other occasion, in another place.)

paulryanrogers 10y ago
Peer exposure was important for me growing up. Despite bullying it is useful for learning to relate to others at and below one's level. And for only children that may not be available outside school. Of course with schools the ratio of peers to adults is dangerously close to Lord of the Flies.
J-dawg 10y ago
Admittedly my anecdotal experiences might also be affected by confirmation bias, based on the nerdiness of the people I associate with.

J-dawg 10y ago

Too late to edit so I'm replying to my own comment. I also wanted to mention that there is a place where the Lord of the Flies approach has been taken to its logical extreme, in a long-running experiment which continues to this day. That place is the British boarding school system. It messes people up so badly that it even has its own psychological condition: Boarding School Syndrome [1]. The fact that many of our political leaders come from this system should be a cause for concern. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/11662001/The-truth-about-boarding-school-syndrome.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/1166...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

NoGravitas 10y ago

People who are bullied often deal with their feelings by punching down, bullying younger or otherwise lower-status kids. It's a hard cycle to break, and I think once it gets started in a school, it's almost impossible to get rid of.

ScottBurson 10y ago

Yes -- John Holt, one of the early luminaries of the homeschooling movement [0], always used to talk about this -- that the "socialization" that happens in schools is more anti-socialization. It was common for parents to write to his newsletter that taking their kids out of school improved their behavior and morale considerably. [0] http://www.johnholtgws.com/ http://www.johnholtgws.com/