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So are true microtransactions currently infeasible due to transactions fees exceeding even CC-rates? I believe that were of mayor concern last time I checked u

by hultner 10y ago

So are true microtransactions currently infeasible due to transactions fees exceeding even CC-rates? I believe that were of mayor concern last time I checked up.

zeven7 10y ago
https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ currently recommends around $0.17 per transaction.
- hultner 10y ago
  That's a lot more then I though, is that even reasonable? With today's digitalization even stock trading is commonly available at $0.1 in courtage fee, is it really feasible bitcoin to use double that if broad adoption is appreciated? Or is that not a prioritized goal? What stance does the bitcoin foundation take or whichever is the highest authority talking on behalf of the community?
  - zeven7 10y ago
    > What stance does the bitcoin foundation take or whichever is the highest authority talking on behalf of the community? From what I undertand, it's not a goal for Bitcoin Core (lead dev team for the official client). They want to make Bitcoin a "settlement layer" that serves as a foundation for other things to be built on top of. Lightning network[1] would be the layer built on top that supports microtransactions. There are others who believe that Bitcoin should be able to scale to support microtransactions and other features itself. There's a very large controversy in the community over this. [1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Lightning_Network https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Lightning_Network
tylersmith 10y ago
The position of Bitcoin Core is that fees should be high and microtransactions should be infeasible, except on Blockstream's Lightning Network. The reason is that decentralization has costs and they believe fees need to be high to pay for it.
- hultner 10y ago
  What is the Blockstream's Lightning Network and how does it correlate with bitcoin? How will bitcoin attract customers from traditional payment options if fees are higher?
  - out_of_protocol 10y ago
    That's level 2 solution, implemented on top of Bitcoin (you need to create bitcoin transactions to start interacting with LN and consequent "good" transactions are almost free). One thing - it is not actually implemented in full and therefore can not be used in vivo.
- kobeya 10y ago
  Lightning was not invented by Blockstream, nor is Blockstream the majority player in that space either. They're just paying two open source developers (Rusty Russell and Christian Decker) to work on it. The original creators of Lightning have their own company, and there are at least five other competing implementations. BitFury employs more lightning developers than Blockstream and LightningCo combined.
- RustyRussell 10y ago
  To be fair, the position of Core is more: "we don't know how to scale significantly without further threatening decentralization". The rest is a corollary of that.
kobeya 10y ago
Microtransactions were never feasible on 1st-layer bitcoin. 2nd-layer solutions like payment channels make them practical.

by hultner 10y ago

So are true microtransactions currently infeasible due to transactions fees exceeding even CC-rates? I believe that were of mayor concern last time I checked up.

zeven7 10y ago

https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ currently recommends around $0.17 per transaction.

hultner 10y ago
That's a lot more then I though, is that even reasonable? With today's digitalization even stock trading is commonly available at $0.1 in courtage fee, is it really feasible bitcoin to use double that if broad adoption is appreciated? Or is that not a prioritized goal? What stance does the bitcoin foundation take or whichever is the highest authority talking on behalf of the community?
- zeven7 10y ago
  > What stance does the bitcoin foundation take or whichever is the highest authority talking on behalf of the community? From what I undertand, it's not a goal for Bitcoin Core (lead dev team for the official client). They want to make Bitcoin a "settlement layer" that serves as a foundation for other things to be built on top of. Lightning network[1] would be the layer built on top that supports microtransactions. There are others who believe that Bitcoin should be able to scale to support microtransactions and other features itself. There's a very large controversy in the community over this. [1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Lightning_Network https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Lightning_Network

tylersmith 10y ago

The position of Bitcoin Core is that fees should be high and microtransactions should be infeasible, except on Blockstream's Lightning Network. The reason is that decentralization has costs and they believe fees need to be high to pay for it.

hultner 10y ago
What is the Blockstream's Lightning Network and how does it correlate with bitcoin? How will bitcoin attract customers from traditional payment options if fees are higher?
- out_of_protocol 10y ago
  That's level 2 solution, implemented on top of Bitcoin (you need to create bitcoin transactions to start interacting with LN and consequent "good" transactions are almost free). One thing - it is not actually implemented in full and therefore can not be used in vivo.
kobeya 10y ago
Lightning was not invented by Blockstream, nor is Blockstream the majority player in that space either. They're just paying two open source developers (Rusty Russell and Christian Decker) to work on it. The original creators of Lightning have their own company, and there are at least five other competing implementations. BitFury employs more lightning developers than Blockstream and LightningCo combined.
RustyRussell 10y ago
To be fair, the position of Core is more: "we don't know how to scale significantly without further threatening decentralization". The rest is a corollary of that.

kobeya 10y ago

Microtransactions were never feasible on 1st-layer bitcoin. 2nd-layer solutions like payment channels make them practical.