5 ms·

I think getting rid of cars isn't going to fix the problems the people in this article are complaining about. It's the age old problem that plague all popular c

I think getting rid of cars isn't going to fix the problems the people in this article are complaining about. It's the age old problem that plague all popular cities around the world: tourists versus residents. And having visited places like Florence, Paris and Barcelona, I'd rather see the residents get their way.

baron816 10y ago
Residents aren't the ones with cars. No one in this area own a car.
- ghaff 10y ago
  Except the residents (and workers) use taxis, Ubers, black cars, etc. And, as the article notes, the local businesses need to get deliveries, repair people, etc. I would guess the issue doesn't come so much from owners' private cars traveling through the area. I was adding that I made the mistake of passing through Times Square on my way to some destination a number of months back. As in the article, you literally could not walk on the sidewalk which was effectively blocked by the mass of people. Times Square (like areas of downtown) is an extreme example, but things do get really crowded. (And you can't just do away with road traffic there. You're at intersection of two major N-S avenues.)
  - philipov 10y ago
    Residents use the subway. Taxis are mostly for visitors: tourists, or day trippers from the periphery.
  - viewer5 10y ago
    What are "black cars"?
    - untog 10y ago
      Private car services. Like a taxi, only prebooked. Uber uses many black car companies in NYC.
    - ghaff 10y ago
      As untog says. Limos in other words. In addition to people booking them for theater or such, it's very common for downtown law firms, investment banks, etc. to have an account with a private car firm so that people working late can just call up to get one to take them home.
      - CPLX 10y ago
        Black cars aren't limos. A more accurate way to describe them would be unmarked taxis that are dispatched not hailed. What us New Yorkers call a car service.
        kgwgk 10y ago
        > Black cars aren't limos. What's the difference?
        nitrogen 10y ago
        Might be size (I'm not in NY).
        CPLX 10y ago
        Standard definition of a limo is an extended wheelbase and partition between the passenger and the driver. I suppose one could argue the details but that's how the distinction is understood in an NYC context at least.
        kylebgorman 10y ago
        They have "limo licenses" but yeah, few if any of them are actual limousines in wheelbase / shape. Most are towncars or upscale SUVs.
    - nerfhammer 10y ago
      Private car services and/or illegal taxies.
  - mulletbum 10y ago
    Couldn't they eliminate more of the street and make them one way? I feel like you would make a single lane then, but then driving wouldn't use so much space.
    - rossitter 10y ago
      > make them one way? They are one way. Almost the whole of Manhattan is. Broadway is already narrow. Seventh not so much, but car traffic there can frequently be as bad as foot traffic. I'm not sure what a good answer would be.
      - baybal2 10y ago
        >Broadway is already narrow. Seventh not so much, but car traffic there can frequently be as bad as foot traffic. I'm not sure what a good answer would be. Add second floor above the road. And on top of it, a third floor.
        rossitter 10y ago
        > Add second floor above the road. And on top of it, a third floor. Like an expressway? What about exits, turn-offs, on-ramps? Where would the city find the land to build these? Most vehicles driving around Times Square are at least fairly local; they're not looking to bypass Midtown Manhattan. If they wanted to, they would probably have driven the short distance to FDR Drive or the West Side Highway.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        mjevans 10y ago
        You put the heavy things on the bottom. The lighter things on top. (Literal plexiglass cieling) Pedestrians Bikes (if not with pedestrians) Transit vehicles (in what is now a service tunnel/grid) Yes, this would actually require ventilation engineering, but a city should anyway. You might also push for highly restricted emissions vehicles. CNG, Hydrogen, and Electric come to mind as things to consider for a white-list.
  - imgabe 10y ago
    Part of the problem is a lack of alleys, so delivery trucks have to park in the street and block traffic. If zoning required an off-street loading dock area for all buildings it would start to help as new buildings are built. I'm not sure if that's a rule or not.
    - pc86 10y ago
      Where's the space for that?
      - imgabe 10y ago
        It comes out of the building footprint. Building owners won't be happy, but everyone else would.
    - baybal2 10y ago
      >Part of the problem is a lack of alleys, so delivery trucks have to park in the street and block traffic. There are walled-off backyards and "gardens" within big blocks. Just make them open
      - rossitter 10y ago
        Courtyards are largest where alleyways would be least needed, on residential blocks. For most blocks where unloading is a problem, courtyards are narrow, uneven spaces that frequently do not run the length of the 'interior' block. The city would also have to justify reclaiming two lots per block—on either end of the courtyard/alleyway—in a city which already has a housing shortage.
    - chris_7 10y ago
      A much easier solution is to dedicate a space on each block to deliveries only, and make parking a car in it a massive fine/immediate license suspension.
  - baron816 10y ago
    I'm ok with having cars drive through the area. I just don't approve of people leaving them idle on the street. Taxis, Ubers, and black cars aren't parking. Delivery trucks are stopping, but only for a few minutes. A third (or more) of the street space is devoted to vehicles that aren't in use. Those cars could be placed in garages or parked on the street in another part of town where the owner can subway to where they're going. Ideally, streets would be used only by pedestrians, but I acknowledge that's not feasible.

baron816 10y ago

Residents aren't the ones with cars. No one in this area own a car.

ghaff 10y ago
Except the residents (and workers) use taxis, Ubers, black cars, etc. And, as the article notes, the local businesses need to get deliveries, repair people, etc. I would guess the issue doesn't come so much from owners' private cars traveling through the area. I was adding that I made the mistake of passing through Times Square on my way to some destination a number of months back. As in the article, you literally could not walk on the sidewalk which was effectively blocked by the mass of people. Times Square (like areas of downtown) is an extreme example, but things do get really crowded. (And you can't just do away with road traffic there. You're at intersection of two major N-S avenues.)
- philipov 10y ago
  Residents use the subway. Taxis are mostly for visitors: tourists, or day trippers from the periphery.
- viewer5 10y ago
  What are "black cars"?
  - untog 10y ago
    Private car services. Like a taxi, only prebooked. Uber uses many black car companies in NYC.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    As untog says. Limos in other words. In addition to people booking them for theater or such, it's very common for downtown law firms, investment banks, etc. to have an account with a private car firm so that people working late can just call up to get one to take them home.
    - CPLX 10y ago
      Black cars aren't limos. A more accurate way to describe them would be unmarked taxis that are dispatched not hailed. What us New Yorkers call a car service.
      - kgwgk 10y ago
        > Black cars aren't limos. What's the difference?
        nitrogen 10y ago
        Might be size (I'm not in NY).
        CPLX 10y ago
        Standard definition of a limo is an extended wheelbase and partition between the passenger and the driver. I suppose one could argue the details but that's how the distinction is understood in an NYC context at least.
      - kylebgorman 10y ago
        They have "limo licenses" but yeah, few if any of them are actual limousines in wheelbase / shape. Most are towncars or upscale SUVs.
  - nerfhammer 10y ago
    Private car services and/or illegal taxies.
- mulletbum 10y ago
  Couldn't they eliminate more of the street and make them one way? I feel like you would make a single lane then, but then driving wouldn't use so much space.
  - rossitter 10y ago
    > make them one way? They are one way. Almost the whole of Manhattan is. Broadway is already narrow. Seventh not so much, but car traffic there can frequently be as bad as foot traffic. I'm not sure what a good answer would be.
    - baybal2 10y ago
      >Broadway is already narrow. Seventh not so much, but car traffic there can frequently be as bad as foot traffic. I'm not sure what a good answer would be. Add second floor above the road. And on top of it, a third floor.
      - rossitter 10y ago
        > Add second floor above the road. And on top of it, a third floor. Like an expressway? What about exits, turn-offs, on-ramps? Where would the city find the land to build these? Most vehicles driving around Times Square are at least fairly local; they're not looking to bypass Midtown Manhattan. If they wanted to, they would probably have driven the short distance to FDR Drive or the West Side Highway.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        mjevans 10y ago
        You put the heavy things on the bottom. The lighter things on top. (Literal plexiglass cieling) Pedestrians Bikes (if not with pedestrians) Transit vehicles (in what is now a service tunnel/grid) Yes, this would actually require ventilation engineering, but a city should anyway. You might also push for highly restricted emissions vehicles. CNG, Hydrogen, and Electric come to mind as things to consider for a white-list.
- imgabe 10y ago
  Part of the problem is a lack of alleys, so delivery trucks have to park in the street and block traffic. If zoning required an off-street loading dock area for all buildings it would start to help as new buildings are built. I'm not sure if that's a rule or not.
  - pc86 10y ago
    Where's the space for that?
    - imgabe 10y ago
      It comes out of the building footprint. Building owners won't be happy, but everyone else would.
  - baybal2 10y ago
    >Part of the problem is a lack of alleys, so delivery trucks have to park in the street and block traffic. There are walled-off backyards and "gardens" within big blocks. Just make them open
    - rossitter 10y ago
      Courtyards are largest where alleyways would be least needed, on residential blocks. For most blocks where unloading is a problem, courtyards are narrow, uneven spaces that frequently do not run the length of the 'interior' block. The city would also have to justify reclaiming two lots per block—on either end of the courtyard/alleyway—in a city which already has a housing shortage.
  - chris_7 10y ago
    A much easier solution is to dedicate a space on each block to deliveries only, and make parking a car in it a massive fine/immediate license suspension.
- baron816 10y ago
  I'm ok with having cars drive through the area. I just don't approve of people leaving them idle on the street. Taxis, Ubers, and black cars aren't parking. Delivery trucks are stopping, but only for a few minutes. A third (or more) of the street space is devoted to vehicles that aren't in use. Those cars could be placed in garages or parked on the street in another part of town where the owner can subway to where they're going. Ideally, streets would be used only by pedestrians, but I acknowledge that's not feasible.