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>Modern schools seem to be a terrible environment to socialize kids, with things like bulling, weapons, drugs, sexting, sex Do people spouting this have any ki

>Modern schools seem to be a terrible environment to socialize kids, with things like bulling, weapons, drugs, sexting, sex Do people spouting this have any kind of realistic evidence for how schools are so terrible for socializing, instead of spouting off folksy wisdom? The whole "socialize, more like INSTITUTIONALIZE mirite guys?" just feels so flimsy and patronizing. Some are even comparing public schools to Lord of the Flies? That's just ridiculous.

randomguy23 10y ago
uhhh, yeah - we attended public school.
- justinlaster 10y ago
  >folksy wisdom I also fail to see how any of those things listed are some how related specifically to schooling in any kind of institution. Everything that's listed exists in society by it's own "virtues." In fact, its rather silly to claim that homeschooling children will somehow not expose them to possibly more drugs, more weapons, more sexting, etc. It's not like the children and adults who bring forth those "qualities" of society are constrained at the public or private school walls. They're in your local bookstores, theaters, churches, youth groups, and your parks.
wehadfun 10y ago
Yea married to teachers, have children in schools, went to schools are selves. Way more relevant than some jackasses study or some article.
- imron 10y ago
  > went to schools are selves Still need some work though ;-)
- st3v3r 10y ago
  Something something anecdote is not data.
phil21 10y ago
I take it you've only been to either very high performing (nationally) public high schools or private schools? I have a unique education background at that age - I was homeschooled until 5th grade, then went to a private religious school until 8th, then a private very high-end high school in 9th grade, and then a brand new suburban high school in 10th, and then inner city shitbox schools in 11th until I finally dropped out and took the GED since it was such a waste of my time. In the good schools? You're pretty much correct. I can definitely see why a parent would not like a lot of what happens in them, but it's a bit much to call those social scenes dysfunctional entirely. The inner city schools? Oh man, I would do anything to keep my kid out of such hellholes. I think you really need to volunteer in a Chicago south side or similar high school for a week - I haven't met anyone who's spent any time in that system who would ever send their children to them. It's social environment is more like a juvenile hall. > Some are even comparing public schools to Lord of the Flies? That's just ridiculous. I'd say it's a pretty apt comparison, murders and all for a significant portion of the US population.
- justinlaster 10y ago
  >The inner city schools? I could comment this with my own perspective fairly extensively, but quite honestly every time I give some kind of personal experience in this thread it's just met with snark, and every time I ask for objective evidence I get some "why trust some jackass's study" type of response. But, in my own experience, schools, even in the "inner city" (which just seems to be kind of key word for an aggregate of poorly functioning schools, or a poorly functioning student population), can still offer a bit of refuge from home life. Even poorly funded schools will have some great teachers/mentors. So let me just ask this: How is home schooling going to fix such "hellholes"? You're effectively blaming an institution on the failings of the society around it; even when that institution actually provides a constructive outlet that most likely would not have ever been provided at home. And for all it's tasked with doing, this institution by the way, continues to be constrained by people who seem to hate it.
  - throwaway729 10y ago
    > But, in my own experience, schools, even in the inner city, can still offer a bit of refuge from home life I've volunteered in the south side schools your parent mentioned, and I can think of some cases where this was definitely very true. Of course, it's also true that all of those kids also would've been much better off in better schools. > How is home schooling going to fix such "hellholes"? If a family has an adult in the house hold who can stay home and educate the children, then they're definitely not living in these neighborhoods in the first place. And in any case, that family would be much better off if the second parent works so that the family can move to a better neighborhood.
speeder 10y ago
I am from Brazil, where there is a large divide in quality of public schools and private schools. I went to private schools, and envied the columbine guys, when it hit the news, I wanted to do the same. (happily, I didn't). Still, friend I had (outside of school) that went to public schools, were real Lord of the Flies material: * One friend I had, once was assaulted by 3 bullies using their school scissors as a weapon, he reacted by bashing the head of one of them in using his skateboard, hitting his skull with the skateboard wheel supports. * Another friend of mine broke someone jaw with a fire extinguisher in a school brawl. And even in my private school: * Some dude threw my sister into a construction area, after that she started to walk with a non-optical mouse ball in her pocket, she knocked a guy with it once after the guy stole her lunch. * A kid from first grade made a hole in another kid skull using one of those traditional spinning tops made of wood and nail, this resulted in a spinning top ban. * After the spinning top ban, the popular toy became yoyo, that also became banned after a kid tried to strangle another with the string. * Metal rulers were forbidden, it is because some years earlier, before I joined the school, a group of kids figured they could sharpen the rulers until they were sharp, use them as swords, and steal all other kids, including much older ones, money. And then we have incidents like this: * Teacher in my high-school had some quirky behaviour regarding emergency staircase, later another teacher told us he witnessed a student jump from it headfirst in a fashion that made brain splatter all over the place. * One of the highlights of my high-school principal career, is that when he was teacher in another school, one of his students put a bomb in a bathroom that was so strong the toilet he wanted to explode made a hole in the ceiling above. * Kid got kicked out of school after arriving 6:30 in the morning blind drunk, got in a brawl with other students, and destroyed half of the desks in a classroom. * Whole city was hit hard by the news that a group of 15 year old kids organized a massive party, then when it was time to leave one of them decided to drive home drunk, despite mininum driving age being 18 anyway, crashed, and killed himself, 2 more students, and left two others paraplegic. And all that is from a relatively wealthy place, poorer areas we had kids murdering each other and teachers without even hitting the news. And now some recent news about school incident, in portuguese, so you might need google translate: http://www.vice.com/pt_br/read/aluno-morre-esfaqueado-escola-ocupada-parana http://www.vice.com/pt_br/read/aluno-morre-esfaqueado-escola...

randomguy23 10y ago

uhhh, yeah - we attended public school.

justinlaster 10y ago
>folksy wisdom I also fail to see how any of those things listed are some how related specifically to schooling in any kind of institution. Everything that's listed exists in society by it's own "virtues." In fact, its rather silly to claim that homeschooling children will somehow not expose them to possibly more drugs, more weapons, more sexting, etc. It's not like the children and adults who bring forth those "qualities" of society are constrained at the public or private school walls. They're in your local bookstores, theaters, churches, youth groups, and your parks.

wehadfun 10y ago

Yea married to teachers, have children in schools, went to schools are selves. Way more relevant than some jackasses study or some article.

imron 10y ago
> went to schools are selves Still need some work though ;-)
st3v3r 10y ago
Something something anecdote is not data.

phil21 10y ago

I take it you've only been to either very high performing (nationally) public high schools or private schools? I have a unique education background at that age - I was homeschooled until 5th grade, then went to a private religious school until 8th, then a private very high-end high school in 9th grade, and then a brand new suburban high school in 10th, and then inner city shitbox schools in 11th until I finally dropped out and took the GED since it was such a waste of my time. In the good schools? You're pretty much correct. I can definitely see why a parent would not like a lot of what happens in them, but it's a bit much to call those social scenes dysfunctional entirely. The inner city schools? Oh man, I would do anything to keep my kid out of such hellholes. I think you really need to volunteer in a Chicago south side or similar high school for a week - I haven't met anyone who's spent any time in that system who would ever send their children to them. It's social environment is more like a juvenile hall. > Some are even comparing public schools to Lord of the Flies? That's just ridiculous. I'd say it's a pretty apt comparison, murders and all for a significant portion of the US population.

justinlaster 10y ago
>The inner city schools? I could comment this with my own perspective fairly extensively, but quite honestly every time I give some kind of personal experience in this thread it's just met with snark, and every time I ask for objective evidence I get some "why trust some jackass's study" type of response. But, in my own experience, schools, even in the "inner city" (which just seems to be kind of key word for an aggregate of poorly functioning schools, or a poorly functioning student population), can still offer a bit of refuge from home life. Even poorly funded schools will have some great teachers/mentors. So let me just ask this: How is home schooling going to fix such "hellholes"? You're effectively blaming an institution on the failings of the society around it; even when that institution actually provides a constructive outlet that most likely would not have ever been provided at home. And for all it's tasked with doing, this institution by the way, continues to be constrained by people who seem to hate it.
- throwaway729 10y ago
  > But, in my own experience, schools, even in the inner city, can still offer a bit of refuge from home life I've volunteered in the south side schools your parent mentioned, and I can think of some cases where this was definitely very true. Of course, it's also true that all of those kids also would've been much better off in better schools. > How is home schooling going to fix such "hellholes"? If a family has an adult in the house hold who can stay home and educate the children, then they're definitely not living in these neighborhoods in the first place. And in any case, that family would be much better off if the second parent works so that the family can move to a better neighborhood.

speeder 10y ago

I am from Brazil, where there is a large divide in quality of public schools and private schools. I went to private schools, and envied the columbine guys, when it hit the news, I wanted to do the same. (happily, I didn't). Still, friend I had (outside of school) that went to public schools, were real Lord of the Flies material: * One friend I had, once was assaulted by 3 bullies using their school scissors as a weapon, he reacted by bashing the head of one of them in using his skateboard, hitting his skull with the skateboard wheel supports. * Another friend of mine broke someone jaw with a fire extinguisher in a school brawl. And even in my private school: * Some dude threw my sister into a construction area, after that she started to walk with a non-optical mouse ball in her pocket, she knocked a guy with it once after the guy stole her lunch. * A kid from first grade made a hole in another kid skull using one of those traditional spinning tops made of wood and nail, this resulted in a spinning top ban. * After the spinning top ban, the popular toy became yoyo, that also became banned after a kid tried to strangle another with the string. * Metal rulers were forbidden, it is because some years earlier, before I joined the school, a group of kids figured they could sharpen the rulers until they were sharp, use them as swords, and steal all other kids, including much older ones, money. And then we have incidents like this: * Teacher in my high-school had some quirky behaviour regarding emergency staircase, later another teacher told us he witnessed a student jump from it headfirst in a fashion that made brain splatter all over the place. * One of the highlights of my high-school principal career, is that when he was teacher in another school, one of his students put a bomb in a bathroom that was so strong the toilet he wanted to explode made a hole in the ceiling above. * Kid got kicked out of school after arriving 6:30 in the morning blind drunk, got in a brawl with other students, and destroyed half of the desks in a classroom. * Whole city was hit hard by the news that a group of 15 year old kids organized a massive party, then when it was time to leave one of them decided to drive home drunk, despite mininum driving age being 18 anyway, crashed, and killed himself, 2 more students, and left two others paraplegic. And all that is from a relatively wealthy place, poorer areas we had kids murdering each other and teachers without even hitting the news. And now some recent news about school incident, in portuguese, so you might need google translate: http://www.vice.com/pt_br/read/aluno-morre-esfaqueado-escola-ocupada-parana http://www.vice.com/pt_br/read/aluno-morre-esfaqueado-escola...