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WOW someone else who sees the Lord of the Flies effect. I think children fall into this trap because they want power. At such young ages power is everything. Po

WOW someone else who sees the Lord of the Flies effect. I think children fall into this trap because they want power. At such young ages power is everything. Power over themselves, and over other people. Bullying, cliques, popularity, it's all about power. Those who have it want to expand it, and exert it over others. Those who don't have it, want to stay away from those who do. To fix this, schools must do more to balance the power. Make all kids clean the school. Remove decisions around popularity; random group assignments, etc. Treat bullying just as serious as a kid bringing a weapon to school. Zero tolerance, and order teachers to use their control in the classroom, instead of giving up that responsibility to administrators. Break the power dynamic for these kids, IMHO, by whatever means necessary, and you will fix the system.

cmdrfred 10y ago
I don't think this effect is at all unique to children they are just less subtle about it. Bullying causes lots of negative effects but I can't say its worse than growing up without the skills to handle adversity.
- philwelch 10y ago
  To whatever extent childhood is training for adulthood, navigating school popularity and politics is training for navigating politics at work and in adult communities.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    I was bullyed a lot. Poor kid with cheap clothes that were too small. If I wasn't as headstrong it would of been crushing (headstrong in public school = ADD when I attended). Perhaps the solution is to find ways to give real positive praise to kids instead of trying to remove every single negative reaction they might have.
tropo 10y ago
The best that can be done is to harness the natural urge to dominate peers. Put it to use by granting dominance tools in exchange for academic success. Good GPA? Wear what you like, except distractions (naked) mean back-of-class seating. Bad GPA? You wear a one-size-fits-all jumpsuit made of faded rose-colored velvet. Good GPA? Eat what you like. Bad GPA? You get that squishy nutriloaf thing normally reserved for misbehaving prisoners. Good GPA? You get first choice for slots in sports teams, drama club, choir, cheerleading, and all the rest. It doesn't matter if you suck at the activity. Bad GPA? No participation permitted. Enforce prom date pairs having a minimum average GPA. Those with the highest GPA can pick anybody. Those at the midpoint can pick the better half of the school. Those at the bottom get only one choice, and will thus need to make nice with the top-performing student. Good GPA? Wander in and out of school as you please. Bad GPA? You pass through metal detectors, get a pat-down, and are sniffed at by the drug-detecting dog. Good GPA? Move around and chat with friends during lunch. Bad GPA? You get assigned seating and must eat in total silence. People will invent new ways to attempt dominance. Brutally crush this for any student who fails to perform academically.
- joeclark77 10y ago
  This is why I love HN, for the #Lifehacks. I may use these on my kids...
- noxToken 10y ago
  There are a lot of places where I'd know that this is a joke. On HN, I can't tell[0]. I mean, I'm sure there is at least some sarcasm in there, but I can't tell how much is real and how much is hyperbole. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
  - tropo 10y ago
    It's not all 100% workable, but it's no joke. The desire for dominance runs strong in normal humans. Normally schools just let this run wild, like Lord of the Flies, causing all sorts of horrible social interaction for no gain. The dominance urge isn't going away, so we might as well harness that urge for education. Agreements can be made to extend incentives beyond the school: Good GPA? You can drive a car at age 14, with reduced-rate insurance and school-provided training. Bad GPA? You must wait until age 25. Good GPA? The local cops welcome you to go shooting with them. You get any needed state licensing at age 12. Bad GPA? Forget it; no 2nd amendment for you! Good GPA? The local mall welcomes you by yourself. Bad GPA? You are not permitted entry. (Moderate GPA: only with parents) Good GPA? Public transportation is free. Bad GPA? You don't ride without a parent. (Moderate GPA: standard fare applies) Good GPA? Wander the city as you please. Bad GPA? There is a curfew.

cmdrfred 10y ago

I don't think this effect is at all unique to children they are just less subtle about it. Bullying causes lots of negative effects but I can't say its worse than growing up without the skills to handle adversity.

philwelch 10y ago
To whatever extent childhood is training for adulthood, navigating school popularity and politics is training for navigating politics at work and in adult communities.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  I was bullyed a lot. Poor kid with cheap clothes that were too small. If I wasn't as headstrong it would of been crushing (headstrong in public school = ADD when I attended). Perhaps the solution is to find ways to give real positive praise to kids instead of trying to remove every single negative reaction they might have.

tropo 10y ago

The best that can be done is to harness the natural urge to dominate peers. Put it to use by granting dominance tools in exchange for academic success. Good GPA? Wear what you like, except distractions (naked) mean back-of-class seating. Bad GPA? You wear a one-size-fits-all jumpsuit made of faded rose-colored velvet. Good GPA? Eat what you like. Bad GPA? You get that squishy nutriloaf thing normally reserved for misbehaving prisoners. Good GPA? You get first choice for slots in sports teams, drama club, choir, cheerleading, and all the rest. It doesn't matter if you suck at the activity. Bad GPA? No participation permitted. Enforce prom date pairs having a minimum average GPA. Those with the highest GPA can pick anybody. Those at the midpoint can pick the better half of the school. Those at the bottom get only one choice, and will thus need to make nice with the top-performing student. Good GPA? Wander in and out of school as you please. Bad GPA? You pass through metal detectors, get a pat-down, and are sniffed at by the drug-detecting dog. Good GPA? Move around and chat with friends during lunch. Bad GPA? You get assigned seating and must eat in total silence. People will invent new ways to attempt dominance. Brutally crush this for any student who fails to perform academically.

joeclark77 10y ago
This is why I love HN, for the #Lifehacks. I may use these on my kids...
noxToken 10y ago
There are a lot of places where I'd know that this is a joke. On HN, I can't tell[0]. I mean, I'm sure there is at least some sarcasm in there, but I can't tell how much is real and how much is hyperbole. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
- tropo 10y ago
  It's not all 100% workable, but it's no joke. The desire for dominance runs strong in normal humans. Normally schools just let this run wild, like Lord of the Flies, causing all sorts of horrible social interaction for no gain. The dominance urge isn't going away, so we might as well harness that urge for education. Agreements can be made to extend incentives beyond the school: Good GPA? You can drive a car at age 14, with reduced-rate insurance and school-provided training. Bad GPA? You must wait until age 25. Good GPA? The local cops welcome you to go shooting with them. You get any needed state licensing at age 12. Bad GPA? Forget it; no 2nd amendment for you! Good GPA? The local mall welcomes you by yourself. Bad GPA? You are not permitted entry. (Moderate GPA: only with parents) Good GPA? Public transportation is free. Bad GPA? You don't ride without a parent. (Moderate GPA: standard fare applies) Good GPA? Wander the city as you please. Bad GPA? There is a curfew.