5 ms·

Saudi Arabia specifically could experiment with not funding radical clerics.

by nippples 10y ago

vixen99 10y ago
Presumably it knows what it's doing so why should it want to stop?
- dogma1138 10y ago
  It does and doesn't there isn't a single Saudi government there is a family and a few non blood related oil barons. And family trumps ideology so you have a mixture of ideals which are supported and are more often than not contradictory. The ruling family also uses religion to control the people so if it stops all support it will find it self under the bus rather quickly, so even the most moderate have to extend some support to the fringe elements.
  - sinxoveretothex 10y ago
    If what you say is true (that at least some members of the royal family are moderates who would change things for the better if they could), then it seems to me we should be broadcasting harsh criticism of the current policies to sway more voices rather than talk about how they're not all bad and what not.
    - Zenst 10y ago
      So the polar opposite to what happens currently then: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/anger-after-saudi-arabia-chosen-to-head-key-un-human-rights-panel-10509716.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/anger-after-saudi-ar...
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      "Moderates" as in not going to fund suicide bombings, it doesn't mean they are someone who would you want to have afternoon tea. What people seem not to understand that for the most part moderates in that part of the world as still antithetical to western values; the ones who aren't aren't moderates are extremists just ones who we share values with. Also as mentioned "family" and keeping power is more important to the moderates than pretty much anything else. The House of Saud is huge, where you have 1000's people of the royal family all of which have immense power, wealth and royal privilege you'll have a full spectrum of opinions from princes that get drunk and snort cocaine off the backs of prostitutes in a Macao casino to hard core celerics. But what they all care about the most is to keep their name, title, wealth and power.
- edblarney 10y ago
  "Presumably it knows what it's doing so why should it want to stop?" Because the #1 threat to the power of the House of Saud are terrorists :). Since 1777 there have been revolutions going on everywhere, one way or another. The ideologies have varied. But where there was not 'progress', some 'leader' used an ideology to validate their revolution. In E. Europe and Asia it was Communism, in ME it's one brand of Islamism or another. Al Queda is very much against House of Saud and would want to overthrow them 'first', type thing. It's a complex issue.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
simonh 10y ago
They're stuck. On the one hand they fund many thousands of Islamic schools and charities across the Sunni world. If they stop doing that, it would be disastrous for maybe millions of people that benefit from or rely on them. The cost in publicity and good will would be catastrophic. On the other hand, standards of governance and accountability at these schools and charities are weak to non-existent. It's trivial for extremists and terror networks to tap into them for their own purposes and the Saudi government and their agents are utterly incapable of doing anything about it. They just don't have the skills, experience or culture to even begin to try.
- 67726e 10y ago
  > The cost in publicity and good will would be catastrophic. So we're gonna excuse them funding terrorist because they run some madrasas? Maybe actually helping with the whole problem of Islamic terrorism would make up the good will.
  - simonh 10y ago
    WTF? I'm not excusing anything. It's entirely a crock of their own making.
- burkaman 10y ago
  Doesn't really sound like they're stuck. If they don't have the skills or experience, talk to and hire people who do. It's a completely approachable problem, if they want to approach it.
  - ThrustVectoring 10y ago
    Finding and vetting qualified people to talk to and hire is a related skill that they're also probably missing.

Saudi Arabia specifically could experiment with not funding radical clerics.

vixen99 10y ago

Presumably it knows what it's doing so why should it want to stop?

dogma1138 10y ago
It does and doesn't there isn't a single Saudi government there is a family and a few non blood related oil barons. And family trumps ideology so you have a mixture of ideals which are supported and are more often than not contradictory. The ruling family also uses religion to control the people so if it stops all support it will find it self under the bus rather quickly, so even the most moderate have to extend some support to the fringe elements.
- sinxoveretothex 10y ago
  If what you say is true (that at least some members of the royal family are moderates who would change things for the better if they could), then it seems to me we should be broadcasting harsh criticism of the current policies to sway more voices rather than talk about how they're not all bad and what not.
  - Zenst 10y ago
    So the polar opposite to what happens currently then: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/anger-after-saudi-arabia-chosen-to-head-key-un-human-rights-panel-10509716.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/anger-after-saudi-ar...
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    "Moderates" as in not going to fund suicide bombings, it doesn't mean they are someone who would you want to have afternoon tea. What people seem not to understand that for the most part moderates in that part of the world as still antithetical to western values; the ones who aren't aren't moderates are extremists just ones who we share values with. Also as mentioned "family" and keeping power is more important to the moderates than pretty much anything else. The House of Saud is huge, where you have 1000's people of the royal family all of which have immense power, wealth and royal privilege you'll have a full spectrum of opinions from princes that get drunk and snort cocaine off the backs of prostitutes in a Macao casino to hard core celerics. But what they all care about the most is to keep their name, title, wealth and power.
edblarney 10y ago
"Presumably it knows what it's doing so why should it want to stop?" Because the #1 threat to the power of the House of Saud are terrorists :). Since 1777 there have been revolutions going on everywhere, one way or another. The ideologies have varied. But where there was not 'progress', some 'leader' used an ideology to validate their revolution. In E. Europe and Asia it was Communism, in ME it's one brand of Islamism or another. Al Queda is very much against House of Saud and would want to overthrow them 'first', type thing. It's a complex issue.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

simonh 10y ago

They're stuck. On the one hand they fund many thousands of Islamic schools and charities across the Sunni world. If they stop doing that, it would be disastrous for maybe millions of people that benefit from or rely on them. The cost in publicity and good will would be catastrophic. On the other hand, standards of governance and accountability at these schools and charities are weak to non-existent. It's trivial for extremists and terror networks to tap into them for their own purposes and the Saudi government and their agents are utterly incapable of doing anything about it. They just don't have the skills, experience or culture to even begin to try.

67726e 10y ago
> The cost in publicity and good will would be catastrophic. So we're gonna excuse them funding terrorist because they run some madrasas? Maybe actually helping with the whole problem of Islamic terrorism would make up the good will.
- simonh 10y ago
  WTF? I'm not excusing anything. It's entirely a crock of their own making.
burkaman 10y ago
Doesn't really sound like they're stuck. If they don't have the skills or experience, talk to and hire people who do. It's a completely approachable problem, if they want to approach it.
- ThrustVectoring 10y ago
  Finding and vetting qualified people to talk to and hire is a related skill that they're also probably missing.