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New York City mapped its trees and calculated each one’s economic benefits
- michaelmachine 10y agoMy city Edmonton, Canada also has a map of all the trees they maintain: https://data.edmonton.ca/Environmental-Services/Trees-Species-Map-View-/cggb-hzzm/data https://data.edmonton.ca/Environmental-Services/Trees-Specie...
- coldcode 10y agoMight be interesting to read but a popup blocks the content and the X doesn't close it.
- nkoren 10y agoTry reloading the page? But, yeah, the social media hooks on this adver^H^H^H^Hsite are extremely aggressive and annoying. It starts with popup, then if you close that it opens a sidebar, then if you ignore that opens a footer. All demanding that you like archdaily on Facebook.
- rmah 10y agoJust to clarify, it's not all of NYC trees. The map doesn't include trees in parks or on private land. It is only sidewalk trees. Still a wonderful project.
- bpicolo 10y agoYep! You can see that here: https://tree-map.nycgovparks.org/#treeinfo-3758005 https://tree-map.nycgovparks.org/#treeinfo-3758005 Trees in background not catalogued
- sorincos 10y agoZürich has it too https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ted/de/index/gsz/planung_u_bau/inventare_und_grundlagen/baumkataster.html https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/ted/de/index/gsz/planung_u_bau/...
- Libbum 10y agoMelbourne has been doing a similar thing for some time now: http://melbourneurbanforestvisual.com.au/ http://melbourneurbanforestvisual.com.au/
- cylinder 10y agoAlways loved the presence of trees in the CBD.
- bootload 10y ago"loved the presence of trees in the CBD." As a kid coming from semi-rural area going to Uni, for months I'd trek from RMIT to the closest gardens to eat lunch under a canopy of trees at the Exhibition gardens. [0] Melbourne's northern clime trees and some native vegetation is at risk of premature death. [1] Something like 20% or 375 different species. Lot of planning going into inner-city deforestation. [0] Like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:English_Elm_avenue.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:English_Elm_avenue.jpg [1] Birdie Smith, "Tree change for Melbourne, as the city plans for a warmer world" http://www.smh.com.au/environment/tree-change-for-melbourne-as-the-city-plans-for-a-warmer-world-20161115-gsq9zd.html http://www.smh.com.au/environment/tree-change-for-melbourne-... 2016 Nov 17.
- Odenwaelder 10y agoFrankfurt also did this: https://www.frankfurt.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=3051&_ffmpar%5B_id_inhalt%5D=24228872 https://www.frankfurt.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=3051&_ffmpar%5...
- cornedor 10y agoThis is also getting available for the complete Netherlands (also information like benches, trash bin's, drainage etc) on http://pdokviewer.pdok.nl/ http://pdokviewer.pdok.nl/ A screenshot of some of this data: http://imgur.com/Pgvzfnf http://imgur.com/Pgvzfnf
- cornedor 10y agoI just found out that boomregister.nl actually has even more data. It has literaly almost every tree in the country. Even tree's in forests and private tree's More screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/ctLGx http://imgur.com/a/ctLGx
- adrianN 10y agoIs this already imported into OSM?
- maxerickson 10y agoProbably not, it is not in the NYC data portal (a 1995 tree census is). Edit: Oops, that's wrong, it's here https://data.cityofnewyork.us/Environment/2015-Street-Tree-Census-Tree-Data/pi5s-9p35 https://data.cityofnewyork.us/Environment/2015-Street-Tree-C... ) It's anyway kind of pointless to jam such data into OSM. Most rendering tools are happy to use multiple data sources, so someone interested in such specialized information can just get it from New York City. That doesn't mean that it absolutely shouldn't be added to OSM, but there should be some clear motivations and benefits, not just helping (hypothetical) lazy people (that might be interested in the data) avoid a JOIN (which is hyperbole, for this data you don't even have to match anything up, just use it together with a base map).
- krzyk 10y agoWell, but how many joins would you need to show all those data in multiple countries? There are a lot of trees added to OSM in European countries for example, not everyone needs to know that e.g. Berlin has tree data in this DB and Frankfurt in another one.
- maxerickson 10y agoThat's what I meant by hypothetical though. How many people are scrambling to build global tree viewers that would only include the sparse data you would get by importing all the publicly available data sets? The interest in such data is going to tend to be local or be forced to take into account the nature of the data collection (and thus benefit from directly accessing the curated source data). An example of the latter would be an academic analysis; to pull data from OSM, it would need to start by determining geographic areas with good coverage, or the results would be utterly meaningless.
- adrianN 10y ago
- jonlucc 10y agoIndianapolis has a group called Keep Indianapolis Beautiful (KIB) that works to beautify the city and help decrease long term maintenance costs to the city. To that end, every year they plant thousands of trees, often removing entire plots of land from the maintenance rotation because trees don't require mowing. They have a database that tracks source nurseries, species, locations, etcetera that I'm sure would be a delight to dig through.
- djaychela 10y agoWhat a fantastic site this and the others people have posted on here are. Making this kind of information available to people is a great way to change their opinion of something that otherwise they probably think doesn't do anything for them, or that has a cost, not a benefit to the local economy and environment, and is the kind of information we need to give our kids access to so it becomes de rigeur to understand how important trees are. With all the bad news in the world at the moment, this has been a ray of sunshine, thanks.
- Kristine1975 10y agoBecause clearly the only thing important when it comes to trees is their economic value/s Still a nice project.
- Ma8ee 10y agoNo one claimed that their economic value is the only thing important.
- saycheese 10y agoEstimated value of $500 a tree, especially for a large tree, seems off to me, even if it is the value per year.
- mwexler 10y agoTracing the references, you wind up at http://www.itreetools.org/ http://www.itreetools.org/ which describes the approach the Forestry service took to model out the value of a tree, with some detail at http://www.itreetools.org/resources/archives.php http://www.itreetools.org/resources/archives.php
- wodenokoto 10y agoIs there a way to search ones own comments? I was in a discussion about the yearly price of urban trees a while back on HN, and I thought the numbers would be relevant to this story, but I can't find an easy way to dig up the post.
- oskarth 10y agoThis one? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12054786 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12054786 https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:wodenokoto%20tree&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:wodenokoto%20tree&sort=byPo...
- jessriedel 10y agohttps://hn.algolia.com/ https://hn.algolia.com/ Search "comments" rather than "stories".
- soVeryTired 10y agoI'm not sure I understand what it means to measure the "economic value of a tree". Yes, trees provide shade and reduce pollution, but does that really mean one can meaningfully attach a dollar value to a tree? There are two statements that I think are meaningful: "this tree costs $X to plant and maintain", and "This tree provides benefits that would otherwise cost $X". But if you want to make the latter statement, are you really sure you've captured all the benefits? Including aesthetic ones? Because I'm not really convinced that's possible.
- randpeck 10y agoIt is tough to capture complete benefits and express it in a dollar amount, especially because it is already tough enough to measure the economic value of products that haven't yet competed in the marketplace. The US Forest Service created algorithms to calculate ecological value based on rainwater each tree retains, the electricity conserved, and reduction of air pollution - that calculation just happens to be expressed in dollars. How they make that transition from ecological value to economic value is a mystery to me, but it is just something to keep in mind as you look over this. It is moreso a measure of ecological impact, not economic (though, of course, they are connected).
- SixSigma 10y agoSurveys, the same way National Parks are valued at $92bn http://time.com/money/4389722/national-parks-economic-value/ http://time.com/money/4389722/national-parks-economic-value/
- bracks 10y agoI take economic value to mean tradable/purchasable by another party. I'm basing that definition on the generation and sale of carbon credits in voluntary and regulatory carbon markets and the value power supply companies place on planting trees that reduce power usage (demand side management) like http://www.swenergy.org/Data/Sites/1/media/documents/news/APS-2015-DSM-Annual-Report.pdf http://www.swenergy.org/Data/Sites/1/media/documents/news/AP...
- sampo 10y ago
- maelito 10y agoParis : - street trees ("alignement") https://opendata.paris.fr/explore/dataset/arbresalignementparis2010/map/?location=18,48.86212,2.36627 https://opendata.paris.fr/explore/dataset/arbresalignementpa... - park trees https://opendata.paris.fr/explore/dataset/les-arbres/map/?location=19,48.84257,2.38825 https://opendata.paris.fr/explore/dataset/les-arbres/map/?lo...
- tzakrajs 10y agoWashington DC did this http://dcgis.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=fea6079cf9bc4310a8b6c94f8c2bf1da http://dcgis.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=...
- allworknoplay 10y agoI think they have some data integrity problems: https://tree-map.nycgovparks.org/#treeinfo-3752098 https://tree-map.nycgovparks.org/#treeinfo-3752098 Trunk Diameter: 424 inches Riiiiight...
- jrockway 10y agoI feel like... from some spot checking, these are all circumferences, not diameters.
- CapitalistCartr 10y agoThat'd still be an 11 foot dia. trunk.
- bpicolo 10y agoI mean, you can see the tree in the picture. Looks like a typo that should be 4.24 or something
- vinay427 10y agoThat's equivalent to about 10.8m. Apparently, there's a giant sequoia that's [EDIT: at max 11.1m], so it's not unfathomable but likely an error as you noted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Sherman_(tree) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Sherman_(tree)
- mangeletti 10y agoDo you think it's strange that cities need to map nature to prove its economic value? I've never understood the appeal of cities (other than a quick 1-2 day visit). Cities are more inefficient[1], have more pollution[2], have less nature[3], stink like shit[4], have less happiness[5], have more noise[6], require subways and mass transit just to get around, are more expensive[7], etc. (the list almost doesn't end). 1. https://www.hks.harvard.edu/content/download/70101/1253214/version/1/file/inefficientcities_final.pdf https://www.hks.harvard.edu/content/download/70101/1253214/v... 2. http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20490855,00.html http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20490855,00.html 3. I don't think I need a citation for this one 4. http://www.businessinsider.com/why-new-york-city-smells-in-the-summer-2016-6 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-new-york-city-smells-in-t... 5. http://www.citylab.com/housing/2016/06/the-price-of-happiness-in-cities/487823/ http://www.citylab.com/housing/2016/06/the-price-of-happines... 6. http://earthjournalism.net/resources/noise-pollution-managing-the-challenge-of-urban-sounds http://earthjournalism.net/resources/noise-pollution-managin... 7. http://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-2/expenditures-of-urban-and-rural-households-in-2011.htm http://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-2/expenditures-of-urban-a...
- dagw 10y agoMapping trees is important no matter how many trees you have. I've worked with mapping trees in areas that look like this: https://www.google.se/maps/@60.51161,11.6414,1007m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en https://www.google.se/maps/@60.51161,11.6414,1007m/data=!3m1...
- vidarh 10y ago> Cities are more inefficient[1] That's not what your source says at all. What it says is that there is a point where further increases in density will provide less positive economic effects than negative. It does not say what that point is, nor does it say that there aren't means that can move the interesection point further up. The point where a city becomes less efficient than a rural area is also much further up the density scale, because to get there you first need the inefficiencies to outweight all the benefits, not merely rise faster than the benefits. The paper doesn't even try to quantify which cities might have reached or exceeded the threshold where further density would be detrimental. All it does is try to establish office rents as an indicator of the efficiency of land use policies. The paper itself also points out a lot of caveats even for their very limited goals.
- FrancoDiaz 10y agoTrees are nice, but holy cow...people with too much time and money on their hands making stuff up to justify whatever.
- earlyriser 10y agoWhat are they making up to justify what?
- Raphmedia 10y agoMy guess: Got X budget this year. Used 1/2 of X budget for useful things. Requirement: Use all of X budget or receive only 1/2 of X budget next year. Solution: Use the budget to map all the trees.
- knz 10y agoMapping trees has many legitimate use cases (fighting invasive species that kill the trees, mapping potential hazards from falling trees or where you may need to respond most after a storm, managing trimming trees, estimating runoff and infiltration etc). Deriving additional value from that data is hardly a case of trying to waste money.
- garysieling 10y agoThey need to map them so someone can keep a spreadsheet of which ones have been pruned.
- fencepost 10y agoWhat's notable about this is not that they're mapping the trees - that was going to happen. What's notable about this is the openness, the volunteer effort, and possibly the quality of the data and relatively low cost due to that volunteer effort. This may also have started out seeded with data from aerial photography - possibly with pretty good data on tree types and rough sizes which could be gathered from color data particularly if they used several seasons of data. Mapping of trees was going to be done by whoever was responsible for maintaining them, on a smaller basis by anyone required to work around them (say for sidewalk work), and probably by multiple other organizations.
- bairrd 10y agoWhy are we means-testing trees? This is ridiculous.
- guimarin 10y agoso, is there a consulting question in here somewhere... If there are X trees in NYC/SF, and each tree can stay alive if only peed on by 100 dogs per week, how many dogs are in those cities?
- kian3210 10y agoThanks! We're not looking to make money from clients in perpetuity. One of the things we like about the model is that we plan our own obsolescence and then get out of the way. It lines up our incentives.http://www.twitteremoticons.com/2016/12/twitter-emoticons-and-emoji-with-meaning.html http://www.twitteremoticons.com/2016/12/twitter-emoticons-an...
- andyjsong 10y agoSan Francisco, CA - I helped develop a super basic Android app called Treedat, we didn't publish on the Play Store since it was just to play around with the SF dataset and we were just curious what kind of species we were looking at when we're walking around SF: bit.ly/treedat
- kutkloon7 10y agoAttempts to compute the economic benefits of objects that are not economic are usually meaningless exercises for the bored mind.
- maxerickson 10y agoThe idea that there are objects that are not economic is nonsense. Even things with direct utility like food have weird economic values, not objective values tied only to their utility.