5 ms·

You can find a thing you don't like in any language. Saying PHP is destined for the "language graveyard" is just spreading FUD around a language that made mira

by gog 10y ago

You can find a thing you don't like in any language. Saying PHP is destined for the "language graveyard" is just spreading FUD around a language that made miraculous improvements in a last couple of years. Both in terms of speed and language features. Modern PHP is a joy to work with.

allan_s 10y ago
yes especially if you take in account that the active support for php5.6 will end in less than a month, and secury patches in 2 years (which is not that long in a career time), it will be more and more feasible to have your work "zen garden" full php7 if you want.
rbanffy 10y ago
> Modern PHP is a joy to work with. Would you clarify that? I've not followed PHPs evolution but it never struck me as a particularly notable language except for the fact it used to be the easiest/cheapest to deploy apps for.
- coldtea 10y ago
  It gotten tons of syntactic improvements and bells and whistles after version 5. It got a proper, rewritten, parser. It got a free-double-the-speed update for almost all working code in version 7. It got a full featured package manager (composer). It got many next-generation frameworks and libs that don't fall prey to the issues that plagued early PHP codebases. It got the "share nothing" model correctly from the beginning. It's still the easiest and cheapest to deploy, and has tons of extensions for everything. There's active work for a JIT and async (a la Node/Tornado etc) hooks.
  - dingdingdang 10y ago
    Plus response times are vastly improved on widely deployed things such as Wordpress: https://www.cloudways.com/blog/wordpress-on-php-7-performance-benchmarks-upgrade-guide/ https://www.cloudways.com/blog/wordpress-on-php-7-performanc...
    - chris_wot 10y ago
      I've recently started looking at Symfony. Pretty impressive really!
      - vesak 10y ago
        Be wary of Symfony if you need high performance and cannot use caching. Its runtime is not fast.
        tyingq 10y ago
        Slim is lightweight, and somewhat similar to Flask or Bottle from the Python world: https://www.slimframework.com/ https://www.slimframework.com/ You can also lighten Symfony's footprint: http://symfony.com/blog/new-in-symfony-2-8-symfony-as-a-microframework http://symfony.com/blog/new-in-symfony-2-8-symfony-as-a-micr...
  - babyrainbow 10y ago
    >It got a proper, rewritten, parser. Great. Are you really telling that one of the selling point of the language is that it got a "proper" parser, In it's 7th iteration and 20 years later? What. A. Joke. EDIT: And downvoted. Classic Php apologist response..
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >And downvoted. Classic Php apologist response.. For one, I just saw your comment, so didn't downvote you when you wrote that. Others did. That said, "classic X apologist" is beyond juvenile for my tastes, so any downvotes I'd call deserved. Yes a language can get a proper parser "in it's 7th iteration and 20 years later" and still be good for some use cases and a success. In fact, the mere fact that it got to its 7th iteration and had a huge following despite not having a proper parser might point you to the fact that it should have gotten some other things very right to compensate. But that would require thinking, instead of a knee jerk reaction and a general assumption that everybody using it is stupid and you are the clever one.
      - babyrainbow 10y ago
        >some other things very right to compensate... Yea, like letting people compare "0x0a" == "10" and have it return true. Sure. I can imagine some newbie somewhere looking at that and go "You can do that? That is soooo coool". A lot of such things, that traded off sanity and security for ease of use made it popular. But that does not mean it got those things "right". I am ignoring other inflammatory things you said, since I don't expect any better from someone who thinks php is hot shit. It is utter crap, and no one should have to start their programming career with utter crap like php when there are so many alternatives.
        coldtea 10y ago
        >A lot of such things, that traded off sanity and security for ease of use made it popular. But that does not mean it got those things "right". Ease of use is sanity in its own right too. And C has been praised to high heavens by the most hardcore of hackers, but nobody would dare call it "secure". >I am ignoring other inflammatory things you said I think you confuse what the word "inflammatory" means. You posted ad-hominens in both this and the previous comment.
  - rbanffy 10y ago
    What are the issues that plagued early PHP codebases?
    - coldtea 10y ago
      Namely, bad coding practices. Globals everywhere (including "register globals" enabled by default), horrible security practices (tons of XSS vulnerabilities for example), no modularity, mixed concerns, mixing HTML and PHP, etc...

by gog 10y ago

allan_s 10y ago

yes especially if you take in account that the active support for php5.6 will end in less than a month, and secury patches in 2 years (which is not that long in a career time), it will be more and more feasible to have your work "zen garden" full php7 if you want.

rbanffy 10y ago

> Modern PHP is a joy to work with. Would you clarify that? I've not followed PHPs evolution but it never struck me as a particularly notable language except for the fact it used to be the easiest/cheapest to deploy apps for.

coldtea 10y ago
It gotten tons of syntactic improvements and bells and whistles after version 5. It got a proper, rewritten, parser. It got a free-double-the-speed update for almost all working code in version 7. It got a full featured package manager (composer). It got many next-generation frameworks and libs that don't fall prey to the issues that plagued early PHP codebases. It got the "share nothing" model correctly from the beginning. It's still the easiest and cheapest to deploy, and has tons of extensions for everything. There's active work for a JIT and async (a la Node/Tornado etc) hooks.
- dingdingdang 10y ago
  Plus response times are vastly improved on widely deployed things such as Wordpress: https://www.cloudways.com/blog/wordpress-on-php-7-performance-benchmarks-upgrade-guide/ https://www.cloudways.com/blog/wordpress-on-php-7-performanc...
  - chris_wot 10y ago
    I've recently started looking at Symfony. Pretty impressive really!
    - vesak 10y ago
      Be wary of Symfony if you need high performance and cannot use caching. Its runtime is not fast.
      - tyingq 10y ago
        Slim is lightweight, and somewhat similar to Flask or Bottle from the Python world: https://www.slimframework.com/ https://www.slimframework.com/ You can also lighten Symfony's footprint: http://symfony.com/blog/new-in-symfony-2-8-symfony-as-a-microframework http://symfony.com/blog/new-in-symfony-2-8-symfony-as-a-micr...
- babyrainbow 10y ago
  >It got a proper, rewritten, parser. Great. Are you really telling that one of the selling point of the language is that it got a "proper" parser, In it's 7th iteration and 20 years later? What. A. Joke. EDIT: And downvoted. Classic Php apologist response..
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >And downvoted. Classic Php apologist response.. For one, I just saw your comment, so didn't downvote you when you wrote that. Others did. That said, "classic X apologist" is beyond juvenile for my tastes, so any downvotes I'd call deserved. Yes a language can get a proper parser "in it's 7th iteration and 20 years later" and still be good for some use cases and a success. In fact, the mere fact that it got to its 7th iteration and had a huge following despite not having a proper parser might point you to the fact that it should have gotten some other things very right to compensate. But that would require thinking, instead of a knee jerk reaction and a general assumption that everybody using it is stupid and you are the clever one.
    - babyrainbow 10y ago
      >some other things very right to compensate... Yea, like letting people compare "0x0a" == "10" and have it return true. Sure. I can imagine some newbie somewhere looking at that and go "You can do that? That is soooo coool". A lot of such things, that traded off sanity and security for ease of use made it popular. But that does not mean it got those things "right". I am ignoring other inflammatory things you said, since I don't expect any better from someone who thinks php is hot shit. It is utter crap, and no one should have to start their programming career with utter crap like php when there are so many alternatives.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        >A lot of such things, that traded off sanity and security for ease of use made it popular. But that does not mean it got those things "right". Ease of use is sanity in its own right too. And C has been praised to high heavens by the most hardcore of hackers, but nobody would dare call it "secure". >I am ignoring other inflammatory things you said I think you confuse what the word "inflammatory" means. You posted ad-hominens in both this and the previous comment.
- rbanffy 10y ago
  What are the issues that plagued early PHP codebases?
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Namely, bad coding practices. Globals everywhere (including "register globals" enabled by default), horrible security practices (tons of XSS vulnerabilities for example), no modularity, mixed concerns, mixing HTML and PHP, etc...