5 ms·

We're fine with them because they're our friends and neighbors.

rtpg 10y ago
That's super true, though it's important to remember that ghettos are still a thing in all but name only in some cities. Public transit routes still get voted down because "they" might show up in the nicer parts of towns.
mc32 10y ago
It takes many legal immigrants years to get status. Some of them wait a decade. I've known a few who had to wait this out. For these people having others jump the line is not a friendly gesture. Most people welcome immigrants, so long as they follow the rules others have to follow. Arguably our system is in need of reform or many kinds (it's our prerogative to seek immigrants of high value to the economy, for example, or those who fill a skills gap or labor gap -say farm workers)
- tptacek 10y ago
  I'm fine with them because I'm a parent, and the idea of deporting the parents of my children's friends and classmates makes me nauseous and angry. I don't much care for any analysis past that. It was the same with the trans bathrooms. You might be surprised how many of us parents have kids with trans friends. The issues get real clear real fast when you see how they affect your kids friends. It's not at all hard to get a glimpse of how they'd affect your kids, if circumstances were different.
  - mc32 10y ago
    The trans thing is something I don't get. It's a non issue. Make all bathrooms unisex. Any one can use any bathroom. In the end women get more access to bathrooms than they do now. Stick a couple of urinals here and there. When people get into a country illegally, they know it's illegal. They know the consequences (for themselves and any dependents), but they hope they will not get caught and do it anyway, so it's hard to see it as if the state "did this" to them. I've seen this in China, Japan, etc. They know any day could be their last. Many had to have their friends sell their belongings for them because in those places you may have a week at most to get out.
    - rtpg 10y ago
      Most undocumented immigrants are people who overstay an original visa. The reasons for people being in places are rarely simple.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        Moreover, whatever you have to say about the parents, the children are American citizens, with all the rights and privileges our grandparents fought World War 2 to preserve. If their families are to be torn up, there needs to be a better reason than lack of immigration paperwork.
        mc32 10y ago
        Not to belabor the point, but most children of illegal immigrants are dual citizens --US and their parents' home country. However, the administration should consider these a lower priority but should enforce immigration policy so that we do not have as many of these cases come up. Basically continue the Obama approach but with better border security.
        tptacek 10y ago
        What on Earth does it matter that they have dual citizenships? They've known no other home but the United States --- their actual home country --- and even if that weren't true, they're American citizens. A "lower priority"? Shouldn't it be the opposite: the priority being that we don't tear up the families of our countrymen over paperwork issues?
        mc32 10y ago
        Lower enforcement priority. That is may not even get to addressing them from a legal perspective. I mention it because some people think "Oh, we're throwing the parents of American citizens out" --no it's the parents of someone who both hold foreign as well as American citizenship. So one could as equally say they're deporting the parents of a Serbian or Brazilian citizen, but it'd be most accurate to say the parents of a dual Brazilian and American or dual Serbian and American citizen.
x0x0 10y ago
And republicans are fine with them because they need cheap workers they can abuse who will never call OSHA, that they can steal wages from, and that they can stiff on workers comp. For just one of so many appalling stories: https://www.thenation.com/article/immigrant-workers-are-being-deported-being-injured-job/ https://www.thenation.com/article/immigrant-workers-are-bein... If we actually wanted to stop illegal immigration, getting serious about e-verify and levying enormous fines on employers would get the job done.
- mc32 10y ago
  Oh for sure. But the dimming of prospects for low skills Americans may have the Repubs, with their newfound populism, find that to survive as a party they will have to look out for the derided suburban worker instead of the guy or gal who sit in corner offices.
  - x0x0 10y ago
    I will believe it when it happens (not that I would object, the middle class needs all the help it can get). But so far, the populism looks like hokum. For just one example, Carrier was bribed to stay. And probably in a way that gets more money to the execs than to the employees. My bet is grift all the way down...
    - mc32 10y ago
      It ain't going to happen but I'd love to see Bernie tapped for a labor dept job. Get him in, co-opt him and have him go at the sellouts who move ops overseas to save a few bucks.

rtpg 10y ago

That's super true, though it's important to remember that ghettos are still a thing in all but name only in some cities. Public transit routes still get voted down because "they" might show up in the nicer parts of towns.

mc32 10y ago

It takes many legal immigrants years to get status. Some of them wait a decade. I've known a few who had to wait this out. For these people having others jump the line is not a friendly gesture. Most people welcome immigrants, so long as they follow the rules others have to follow. Arguably our system is in need of reform or many kinds (it's our prerogative to seek immigrants of high value to the economy, for example, or those who fill a skills gap or labor gap -say farm workers)

tptacek 10y ago
I'm fine with them because I'm a parent, and the idea of deporting the parents of my children's friends and classmates makes me nauseous and angry. I don't much care for any analysis past that. It was the same with the trans bathrooms. You might be surprised how many of us parents have kids with trans friends. The issues get real clear real fast when you see how they affect your kids friends. It's not at all hard to get a glimpse of how they'd affect your kids, if circumstances were different.
- mc32 10y ago
  The trans thing is something I don't get. It's a non issue. Make all bathrooms unisex. Any one can use any bathroom. In the end women get more access to bathrooms than they do now. Stick a couple of urinals here and there. When people get into a country illegally, they know it's illegal. They know the consequences (for themselves and any dependents), but they hope they will not get caught and do it anyway, so it's hard to see it as if the state "did this" to them. I've seen this in China, Japan, etc. They know any day could be their last. Many had to have their friends sell their belongings for them because in those places you may have a week at most to get out.
  - rtpg 10y ago
    Most undocumented immigrants are people who overstay an original visa. The reasons for people being in places are rarely simple.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      Moreover, whatever you have to say about the parents, the children are American citizens, with all the rights and privileges our grandparents fought World War 2 to preserve. If their families are to be torn up, there needs to be a better reason than lack of immigration paperwork.
      - mc32 10y ago
        Not to belabor the point, but most children of illegal immigrants are dual citizens --US and their parents' home country. However, the administration should consider these a lower priority but should enforce immigration policy so that we do not have as many of these cases come up. Basically continue the Obama approach but with better border security.
        tptacek 10y ago
        What on Earth does it matter that they have dual citizenships? They've known no other home but the United States --- their actual home country --- and even if that weren't true, they're American citizens. A "lower priority"? Shouldn't it be the opposite: the priority being that we don't tear up the families of our countrymen over paperwork issues?
        mc32 10y ago
        Lower enforcement priority. That is may not even get to addressing them from a legal perspective. I mention it because some people think "Oh, we're throwing the parents of American citizens out" --no it's the parents of someone who both hold foreign as well as American citizenship. So one could as equally say they're deporting the parents of a Serbian or Brazilian citizen, but it'd be most accurate to say the parents of a dual Brazilian and American or dual Serbian and American citizen.

x0x0 10y ago

And republicans are fine with them because they need cheap workers they can abuse who will never call OSHA, that they can steal wages from, and that they can stiff on workers comp. For just one of so many appalling stories: https://www.thenation.com/article/immigrant-workers-are-being-deported-being-injured-job/ https://www.thenation.com/article/immigrant-workers-are-bein... If we actually wanted to stop illegal immigration, getting serious about e-verify and levying enormous fines on employers would get the job done.

mc32 10y ago
Oh for sure. But the dimming of prospects for low skills Americans may have the Repubs, with their newfound populism, find that to survive as a party they will have to look out for the derided suburban worker instead of the guy or gal who sit in corner offices.
- x0x0 10y ago
  I will believe it when it happens (not that I would object, the middle class needs all the help it can get). But so far, the populism looks like hokum. For just one example, Carrier was bribed to stay. And probably in a way that gets more money to the execs than to the employees. My bet is grift all the way down...
  - mc32 10y ago
    It ain't going to happen but I'd love to see Bernie tapped for a labor dept job. Get him in, co-opt him and have him go at the sellouts who move ops overseas to save a few bucks.