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Reading your post personally made me chuckle, as you could be "arguing" against institutional school with only a few words changed and it would hold the same we

Reading your post personally made me chuckle, as you could be "arguing" against institutional school with only a few words changed and it would hold the same weight.

justinlaster 10y ago
I mean, that's a fairly lofty claim considering what I wrote. Would you care to point out some examples?
- joeclark77 10y ago
  High school graduates are all "off". It takes years for them to learn to behave naturally as adults. I'm a professor - I've seen it. The only freshmen who are interesting to talk to at all are the homeschooled ones. High school teaches "just for the test" and includes a lot of baloney like "evolution" for purposes of checking checkboxes. High schools are packed with "absurdly unqualified" teachers and even more unqualified "administrators". All your rationalizations seem pretty thin gruel when you face the undisputable fact that homeschooled kids far exceed public-school peers in academics. See? beat for beat.
  - justinlaster 10y ago
    You didn't provide any examples, you just took what I said and treated it in a completely disingenuous manner. I didn't say high school aged graduates are "off." I am talking about fully fleshed adults, and in my circle of friends ones that exceed 25 years old. It's not that I necessarily have a problem with "just for the test", which I view as a cheap criticism of people who can't demonstrate what they know when asked to do so, it's that the people who claim such things and then homeschool teach directly for the test with no other insights into the subject because it happens to be that's all they're literally capable of doing due to their own personal studies -- or rather lack thereof. >High schools are packed with "absurdly unqualified" teachers That's another very lofty claim that you're going to have to back up in some substantive form without resorting to folksy wisdom. >that homeschooled kids far exceed public-school peers in academics. And yet there are hardly any notable contributions in any field brought forth by homeschoolers in a manner that is consistent with such a claim. I personally don't _work_ with people who have been home schooled, I don't know anyone in my field as a programmer who grew up homeschooled, and I don't know any homeschoolers who have actively achieved a high value professional career or have demonstrated their exceedingly good academic performance in another way. I'm also not aware of any metric that would lend any reasonable amount of credence to such a claim that homeschoolers will out perform students who attend a public or private school, controlling for everything from family environments and socio-economic status.
    - notdonspaulding 10y ago
      Since you don't know anyone personally who was both home schooled and accomplished, here's a list I found for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_homeschooled_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_homeschooled_people
      - justinlaster 10y ago
        Do you honestly believe that addresses the principle behind my statements? Or are you just looking to be snarky? >I'm also not aware of any metric that would lend any reasonable amount of credence to such a claim that homeschoolers will out perform students who attend a public or private school, controlling for everything from family environments and socio-economic status.
    - joeclark77 10y ago
      You apparently didn't notice I was simply taking your four paragraphs, which to you must seem to be taken-for-granted common sense, and replaced them with four corresponding statements that are well known to everyone else's common sense. You're free to ask for examples, but I didn't need to provide any to make my point.
      - justinlaster 10y ago
        I'm not sure what gives you the idea that I didn't "notice." Also falling back to some kind of vague term like "common sense" is basically you just saying you don't have a point to make and that'd you rather just stick with your opinions, instead of defending them in any meaningful form or critiquing mine. You then flat out admit that "you didn't need to provide any to make my point", which is really you just saying you can't make a point. Why bother to respond? I clearly labeled what was my personal perspective, and then asked for any kind of credible, objective information. You called what is far from a fact "indisputable", and then proceeded to label a subject like evolution as baloney.

Reading your post personally made me chuckle, as you could be "arguing" against institutional school with only a few words changed and it would hold the same weight.

justinlaster 10y ago

I mean, that's a fairly lofty claim considering what I wrote. Would you care to point out some examples?

joeclark77 10y ago
High school graduates are all "off". It takes years for them to learn to behave naturally as adults. I'm a professor - I've seen it. The only freshmen who are interesting to talk to at all are the homeschooled ones. High school teaches "just for the test" and includes a lot of baloney like "evolution" for purposes of checking checkboxes. High schools are packed with "absurdly unqualified" teachers and even more unqualified "administrators". All your rationalizations seem pretty thin gruel when you face the undisputable fact that homeschooled kids far exceed public-school peers in academics. See? beat for beat.
- justinlaster 10y ago
  You didn't provide any examples, you just took what I said and treated it in a completely disingenuous manner. I didn't say high school aged graduates are "off." I am talking about fully fleshed adults, and in my circle of friends ones that exceed 25 years old. It's not that I necessarily have a problem with "just for the test", which I view as a cheap criticism of people who can't demonstrate what they know when asked to do so, it's that the people who claim such things and then homeschool teach directly for the test with no other insights into the subject because it happens to be that's all they're literally capable of doing due to their own personal studies -- or rather lack thereof. >High schools are packed with "absurdly unqualified" teachers That's another very lofty claim that you're going to have to back up in some substantive form without resorting to folksy wisdom. >that homeschooled kids far exceed public-school peers in academics. And yet there are hardly any notable contributions in any field brought forth by homeschoolers in a manner that is consistent with such a claim. I personally don't _work_ with people who have been home schooled, I don't know anyone in my field as a programmer who grew up homeschooled, and I don't know any homeschoolers who have actively achieved a high value professional career or have demonstrated their exceedingly good academic performance in another way. I'm also not aware of any metric that would lend any reasonable amount of credence to such a claim that homeschoolers will out perform students who attend a public or private school, controlling for everything from family environments and socio-economic status.
  - notdonspaulding 10y ago
    Since you don't know anyone personally who was both home schooled and accomplished, here's a list I found for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_homeschooled_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_homeschooled_people
    - justinlaster 10y ago
      Do you honestly believe that addresses the principle behind my statements? Or are you just looking to be snarky? >I'm also not aware of any metric that would lend any reasonable amount of credence to such a claim that homeschoolers will out perform students who attend a public or private school, controlling for everything from family environments and socio-economic status.
  - joeclark77 10y ago
    You apparently didn't notice I was simply taking your four paragraphs, which to you must seem to be taken-for-granted common sense, and replaced them with four corresponding statements that are well known to everyone else's common sense. You're free to ask for examples, but I didn't need to provide any to make my point.
    - justinlaster 10y ago
      I'm not sure what gives you the idea that I didn't "notice." Also falling back to some kind of vague term like "common sense" is basically you just saying you don't have a point to make and that'd you rather just stick with your opinions, instead of defending them in any meaningful form or critiquing mine. You then flat out admit that "you didn't need to provide any to make my point", which is really you just saying you can't make a point. Why bother to respond? I clearly labeled what was my personal perspective, and then asked for any kind of credible, objective information. You called what is far from a fact "indisputable", and then proceeded to label a subject like evolution as baloney.