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Personally, I've never seen a well adjusted person who was home schooled -- or admittedly one that I knew. I say this as someone who had multiple friends who we

Personally, I've never seen a well adjusted person who was home schooled -- or admittedly one that I knew. I say this as someone who had multiple friends who were home schooled. There's always something a little bit "off" about them socially. And it's not in a terribly detrimental way, there just seems to be a noticeable latency between them picking up social cues and appropriately reacting to those cues (if they do at all!) There's also the issue, at least in the U.S., where homeschooling is really kind of a code word for "religious, non-secular" schooling. Anything from evolution to certain history is skimped over and treated in a "just learn this for the test, but don't believe it" kind of fashion, which is extremely unfair and unfortunate for the child in those situations. The biggest issue I really have with homeschooling, tied into the previous paragraph, is that you end up getting absurdly unqualified people teaching their kids (and sometimes other people kids!) subjects they have absolutely no clue about! For a group of people that tends to be extremely vocal about teaching "organically" and not by the book I've never seen any other population so reliant on textbooks when it comes to a variety of subjects. The kids basically lose out on what would be a "pseudo-professional" in what ever subject they're studying, who would able to guide them through certain areas of the subject the text book may not gracefully cover or maybe even not cover at all! Instead you get a stay at home mom, dad, or some kind of combination thereof that didn't bother to study the subject they're trying to teach _and_ went to a public school themselves on top of it all. All these posts seem to be far fetched rationalizations when it comes to homeschooling. There's nothing stopping you from teaching your kids things you want them to learn, beyond what schooling will give them. But it's been plainly obvious to me personally that homeschooling doesn't really give you anything extra, or circumvent problems with the education system, it just takes away from what you would have gotten while claiming it's doing the exact opposite.

joelhooks 10y ago
Reading your post personally made me chuckle, as you could be "arguing" against institutional school with only a few words changed and it would hold the same weight.
- justinlaster 10y ago
  I mean, that's a fairly lofty claim considering what I wrote. Would you care to point out some examples?
  - joeclark77 10y ago
    High school graduates are all "off". It takes years for them to learn to behave naturally as adults. I'm a professor - I've seen it. The only freshmen who are interesting to talk to at all are the homeschooled ones. High school teaches "just for the test" and includes a lot of baloney like "evolution" for purposes of checking checkboxes. High schools are packed with "absurdly unqualified" teachers and even more unqualified "administrators". All your rationalizations seem pretty thin gruel when you face the undisputable fact that homeschooled kids far exceed public-school peers in academics. See? beat for beat.
    - justinlaster 10y ago
      You didn't provide any examples, you just took what I said and treated it in a completely disingenuous manner. I didn't say high school aged graduates are "off." I am talking about fully fleshed adults, and in my circle of friends ones that exceed 25 years old. It's not that I necessarily have a problem with "just for the test", which I view as a cheap criticism of people who can't demonstrate what they know when asked to do so, it's that the people who claim such things and then homeschool teach directly for the test with no other insights into the subject because it happens to be that's all they're literally capable of doing due to their own personal studies -- or rather lack thereof. >High schools are packed with "absurdly unqualified" teachers That's another very lofty claim that you're going to have to back up in some substantive form without resorting to folksy wisdom. >that homeschooled kids far exceed public-school peers in academics. And yet there are hardly any notable contributions in any field brought forth by homeschoolers in a manner that is consistent with such a claim. I personally don't _work_ with people who have been home schooled, I don't know anyone in my field as a programmer who grew up homeschooled, and I don't know any homeschoolers who have actively achieved a high value professional career or have demonstrated their exceedingly good academic performance in another way. I'm also not aware of any metric that would lend any reasonable amount of credence to such a claim that homeschoolers will out perform students who attend a public or private school, controlling for everything from family environments and socio-economic status.
babyrainbow 10y ago
> is that you end up getting absurdly unqualified people teaching their kids... Do you think schools are any different? I kid you not, do you know who teaches in Engineering Colleges in my place. People just out of college. Yea right. Professional courses taught by people just out of college...
- justinlaster 10y ago
  What is your point? Those people actually studied the subject. Are you going to claim that a parent is more qualified than them?
  - babyrainbow 10y ago
    >Are you going to claim that a parent is more qualified than them? There is lot more to teaching than a bunch of "qualifications". I don't know about the educational system of your country. But in my country, people learn to pass exams. And often lessons memorized line by line (In my enginnering college we had students who learn computer programs by heart to pass lab exams). This means, one the exam is over, they are as good as new. Blank state. And when these people come to teach, they often do little more then orating what is written in the "text book". This is about professional colleges that I am talking about. But it is a little bit better in schools. Simply because the subject is simple, and any grownup with enough education can teach themselves enough of any subject to teach in a class. The same goes for a parent. Add to this the fact that a parent can spend a lot more resources to teach their kids than any school teacher, and can follow any method that work well for their kids, and more importantly, they know their kids better then any school teacher (I mean, they should)...
  - 0xCMP 10y ago
    My web teacher in HS was as far as I could tell (he was teaching us) "qualified." He taught us how to make table layout websites in dream weaver using web basic color schemes. It was 2008-2012. He seems to have studied web development and maybe some teaching. I'm not sure, since it's not like we get to read their resumes. But are you saying you're not more qualified than him to teach those topics to students in gifted programs that chose to be in that class? Point: I KNOW he was incompetent. That's cause I already KNEW that subject. I avoided the class (took business classes) to avoid the inevitable fight. How about everything else students don't know or haven't learned yet. You don't think there are more incompetent teachers out there? Ones in lit/math/science/arts? Just because they're an authority and in charge of students means nothing beyond their actions and results, which from experience in this case was incompetence and poor respectively. And people have plenty of students to back up similar situations in other students, other schools, other years for decades. You don't think some healthy distrust is needed and maybe in a free society some can have the choice to do it themselves?
pistle 10y ago
You haven't met enough people who are alternatively schooled and/or home-schooled. Plenty of outstanding, high-performers who probably aren't wearing their Homeschooled! arm bands that day. Most everyone, given enough time away from homogenizing environments like public schools, becomes increasingly differentiated from the norm. They find their tribe and grow into that niche instead. Then, when tribe members cross paths outside their tribe, people sense something "off" about the other.
tropo 10y ago
You have the cause and effect swapped for social behavior. There was something a little bit "off" about my kid socially, making him an obvious bully magnet, so he got homeschooled. There was a noticeable latency for picking up social cues, if he would at all. Putting him in regular school would be throwing him to the lions. Evolution is another reason he is homeschooled, but for the opposite reason that you imagine. Most public school teachers brush past evolution as fast as possible or totally skip it. Some teachers even dare to deny evolution. Both liberal and conservative teachers get uncomfortable with the implications of human evolution, for different reasons, and hardly any teacher wants to bother with a fight over a subject they can just ignore. Book quality varies. You can get Campbell Biology as I did, or you can go to a homeschool supply place and get some creationist nonsense. Both extremes are available. I could do without teachers pushing their personal political views. I have my own, thank you very much.

joelhooks 10y ago

Reading your post personally made me chuckle, as you could be "arguing" against institutional school with only a few words changed and it would hold the same weight.

justinlaster 10y ago
I mean, that's a fairly lofty claim considering what I wrote. Would you care to point out some examples?
- joeclark77 10y ago
  High school graduates are all "off". It takes years for them to learn to behave naturally as adults. I'm a professor - I've seen it. The only freshmen who are interesting to talk to at all are the homeschooled ones. High school teaches "just for the test" and includes a lot of baloney like "evolution" for purposes of checking checkboxes. High schools are packed with "absurdly unqualified" teachers and even more unqualified "administrators". All your rationalizations seem pretty thin gruel when you face the undisputable fact that homeschooled kids far exceed public-school peers in academics. See? beat for beat.
  - justinlaster 10y ago
    You didn't provide any examples, you just took what I said and treated it in a completely disingenuous manner. I didn't say high school aged graduates are "off." I am talking about fully fleshed adults, and in my circle of friends ones that exceed 25 years old. It's not that I necessarily have a problem with "just for the test", which I view as a cheap criticism of people who can't demonstrate what they know when asked to do so, it's that the people who claim such things and then homeschool teach directly for the test with no other insights into the subject because it happens to be that's all they're literally capable of doing due to their own personal studies -- or rather lack thereof. >High schools are packed with "absurdly unqualified" teachers That's another very lofty claim that you're going to have to back up in some substantive form without resorting to folksy wisdom. >that homeschooled kids far exceed public-school peers in academics. And yet there are hardly any notable contributions in any field brought forth by homeschoolers in a manner that is consistent with such a claim. I personally don't _work_ with people who have been home schooled, I don't know anyone in my field as a programmer who grew up homeschooled, and I don't know any homeschoolers who have actively achieved a high value professional career or have demonstrated their exceedingly good academic performance in another way. I'm also not aware of any metric that would lend any reasonable amount of credence to such a claim that homeschoolers will out perform students who attend a public or private school, controlling for everything from family environments and socio-economic status.

babyrainbow 10y ago

> is that you end up getting absurdly unqualified people teaching their kids... Do you think schools are any different? I kid you not, do you know who teaches in Engineering Colleges in my place. People just out of college. Yea right. Professional courses taught by people just out of college...

justinlaster 10y ago
What is your point? Those people actually studied the subject. Are you going to claim that a parent is more qualified than them?
- babyrainbow 10y ago
  >Are you going to claim that a parent is more qualified than them? There is lot more to teaching than a bunch of "qualifications". I don't know about the educational system of your country. But in my country, people learn to pass exams. And often lessons memorized line by line (In my enginnering college we had students who learn computer programs by heart to pass lab exams). This means, one the exam is over, they are as good as new. Blank state. And when these people come to teach, they often do little more then orating what is written in the "text book". This is about professional colleges that I am talking about. But it is a little bit better in schools. Simply because the subject is simple, and any grownup with enough education can teach themselves enough of any subject to teach in a class. The same goes for a parent. Add to this the fact that a parent can spend a lot more resources to teach their kids than any school teacher, and can follow any method that work well for their kids, and more importantly, they know their kids better then any school teacher (I mean, they should)...
- 0xCMP 10y ago
  My web teacher in HS was as far as I could tell (he was teaching us) "qualified." He taught us how to make table layout websites in dream weaver using web basic color schemes. It was 2008-2012. He seems to have studied web development and maybe some teaching. I'm not sure, since it's not like we get to read their resumes. But are you saying you're not more qualified than him to teach those topics to students in gifted programs that chose to be in that class? Point: I KNOW he was incompetent. That's cause I already KNEW that subject. I avoided the class (took business classes) to avoid the inevitable fight. How about everything else students don't know or haven't learned yet. You don't think there are more incompetent teachers out there? Ones in lit/math/science/arts? Just because they're an authority and in charge of students means nothing beyond their actions and results, which from experience in this case was incompetence and poor respectively. And people have plenty of students to back up similar situations in other students, other schools, other years for decades. You don't think some healthy distrust is needed and maybe in a free society some can have the choice to do it themselves?

pistle 10y ago

You haven't met enough people who are alternatively schooled and/or home-schooled. Plenty of outstanding, high-performers who probably aren't wearing their Homeschooled! arm bands that day. Most everyone, given enough time away from homogenizing environments like public schools, becomes increasingly differentiated from the norm. They find their tribe and grow into that niche instead. Then, when tribe members cross paths outside their tribe, people sense something "off" about the other.

tropo 10y ago

You have the cause and effect swapped for social behavior. There was something a little bit "off" about my kid socially, making him an obvious bully magnet, so he got homeschooled. There was a noticeable latency for picking up social cues, if he would at all. Putting him in regular school would be throwing him to the lions. Evolution is another reason he is homeschooled, but for the opposite reason that you imagine. Most public school teachers brush past evolution as fast as possible or totally skip it. Some teachers even dare to deny evolution. Both liberal and conservative teachers get uncomfortable with the implications of human evolution, for different reasons, and hardly any teacher wants to bother with a fight over a subject they can just ignore. Book quality varies. You can get Campbell Biology as I did, or you can go to a homeschool supply place and get some creationist nonsense. Both extremes are available. I could do without teachers pushing their personal political views. I have my own, thank you very much.