9 ms·

Yes but since all of this fear-mongering is contrived by the liberal safe-space culture that has bred groups like this and not based in reality, we won't need t

Yes but since all of this fear-mongering is contrived by the liberal safe-space culture that has bred groups like this and not based in reality, we won't need to do any of that.

rtpg 10y ago
Beyond the moral arguements, the real reason nothing has happened is that this has absolutely no popular support in areas who actually have undocumented immigrants. People in these areas usually are fine with them because "who cares". Businesses are fine because they usually represent cheap labor. Local governments have a lot to do on their plate already, they don't want to go in the immigration business. These policies are basically "federal overreach". Feds fly in to do something the locals do not want. Do you think LA is a sanctuary city because of Obama? It's the will of the people. Who cares what people in Iowa think?
- mc32 10y ago
  As jobs are automated away and our own unskilled labor force finds it harder to find any job, there will be more concern about it. All the feds have to do is enforce e-verify. If anything Trumps win likely signifies distress from the working class. If the Dems dig in their heals and cater more to non citizens than they do their own citizens, I'm afraid they may lose in the next election again.
  - pcwalton 10y ago
    > All the feds have to do is enforce e-verify. No, that is plainly not sufficient, which is obvious because many states already do this. Unless by "enforce E-Verify" you mean something far more drastic.
    - mc32 10y ago
      It means you fine people or firms hiring people who don't have work documents. No excuses. Forged? They get fined and pay for the ticket back to home country of person using forged docs.
  - postcarnival 10y ago
    > If the Dems dig in their heals and cater more to non citizens than they do their own citizens, I'm afraid they may lose in the next election again. This is precisely why Trump won more than any reason. He made an appeal to the most important group in America, the middle class, and they agreed with him.
    - mc32 10y ago
      I'm not sure Trump has it in him, but if he did and courted the black working class the right way, I think he could start winning them over from the Dems. But he has to be serious about creating jobs for them, it means raising the min wage to $15 and not allowing undocs to undercut citizen workers. Trump should learn one thing. Black families like jobs. They'll vote for jobs. They also want, if not always like the police but jobs would go a long way to smoothing things over, as with any pop.
      - postcarnival 10y ago
        agree, I'm optimistic, he may be the best President ever...
        macrael 10y ago
        How do you feel about this: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/trumps-off-the-cuff-remarks-to-world-leaders-leave-diplomats-aghast.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/trumps-off-the...
    - rtpg 10y ago
      he lost the popular vote, and only won it within income brackets above $60k+. He won because everyone voted along party lines + similar turnout to 2000 (Dem marginally above Rep turnout). All other narratives do not match the actual results.
      - tedunangst 10y ago
        How does that explain winning states like PA, which voted for Gore in 2000 by 4%?
- idlewords 10y ago
  We're fine with them because they're our friends and neighbors.
  - rtpg 10y ago
    That's super true, though it's important to remember that ghettos are still a thing in all but name only in some cities. Public transit routes still get voted down because "they" might show up in the nicer parts of towns.
  - mc32 10y ago
    It takes many legal immigrants years to get status. Some of them wait a decade. I've known a few who had to wait this out. For these people having others jump the line is not a friendly gesture. Most people welcome immigrants, so long as they follow the rules others have to follow. Arguably our system is in need of reform or many kinds (it's our prerogative to seek immigrants of high value to the economy, for example, or those who fill a skills gap or labor gap -say farm workers)
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I'm fine with them because I'm a parent, and the idea of deporting the parents of my children's friends and classmates makes me nauseous and angry. I don't much care for any analysis past that. It was the same with the trans bathrooms. You might be surprised how many of us parents have kids with trans friends. The issues get real clear real fast when you see how they affect your kids friends. It's not at all hard to get a glimpse of how they'd affect your kids, if circumstances were different.
      - mc32 10y ago
        The trans thing is something I don't get. It's a non issue. Make all bathrooms unisex. Any one can use any bathroom. In the end women get more access to bathrooms than they do now. Stick a couple of urinals here and there. When people get into a country illegally, they know it's illegal. They know the consequences (for themselves and any dependents), but they hope they will not get caught and do it anyway, so it's hard to see it as if the state "did this" to them. I've seen this in China, Japan, etc. They know any day could be their last. Many had to have their friends sell their belongings for them because in those places you may have a week at most to get out.
jedrek 10y ago
In normal conversation, I'd be 100% sure this is sarcasm. On HN it's 50/50.

Yes but since all of this fear-mongering is contrived by the liberal safe-space culture that has bred groups like this and not based in reality, we won't need to do any of that.

rtpg 10y ago

Beyond the moral arguements, the real reason nothing has happened is that this has absolutely no popular support in areas who actually have undocumented immigrants. People in these areas usually are fine with them because "who cares". Businesses are fine because they usually represent cheap labor. Local governments have a lot to do on their plate already, they don't want to go in the immigration business. These policies are basically "federal overreach". Feds fly in to do something the locals do not want. Do you think LA is a sanctuary city because of Obama? It's the will of the people. Who cares what people in Iowa think?

mc32 10y ago
As jobs are automated away and our own unskilled labor force finds it harder to find any job, there will be more concern about it. All the feds have to do is enforce e-verify. If anything Trumps win likely signifies distress from the working class. If the Dems dig in their heals and cater more to non citizens than they do their own citizens, I'm afraid they may lose in the next election again.
- pcwalton 10y ago
  > All the feds have to do is enforce e-verify. No, that is plainly not sufficient, which is obvious because many states already do this. Unless by "enforce E-Verify" you mean something far more drastic.
  - mc32 10y ago
    It means you fine people or firms hiring people who don't have work documents. No excuses. Forged? They get fined and pay for the ticket back to home country of person using forged docs.
- postcarnival 10y ago
  > If the Dems dig in their heals and cater more to non citizens than they do their own citizens, I'm afraid they may lose in the next election again. This is precisely why Trump won more than any reason. He made an appeal to the most important group in America, the middle class, and they agreed with him.
  - mc32 10y ago
    I'm not sure Trump has it in him, but if he did and courted the black working class the right way, I think he could start winning them over from the Dems. But he has to be serious about creating jobs for them, it means raising the min wage to $15 and not allowing undocs to undercut citizen workers. Trump should learn one thing. Black families like jobs. They'll vote for jobs. They also want, if not always like the police but jobs would go a long way to smoothing things over, as with any pop.
    - postcarnival 10y ago
      agree, I'm optimistic, he may be the best President ever...
      - macrael 10y ago
        How do you feel about this: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/trumps-off-the-cuff-remarks-to-world-leaders-leave-diplomats-aghast.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/trumps-off-the...
  - rtpg 10y ago
    he lost the popular vote, and only won it within income brackets above $60k+. He won because everyone voted along party lines + similar turnout to 2000 (Dem marginally above Rep turnout). All other narratives do not match the actual results.
    - tedunangst 10y ago
      How does that explain winning states like PA, which voted for Gore in 2000 by 4%?
idlewords 10y ago
We're fine with them because they're our friends and neighbors.
- rtpg 10y ago
  That's super true, though it's important to remember that ghettos are still a thing in all but name only in some cities. Public transit routes still get voted down because "they" might show up in the nicer parts of towns.
- mc32 10y ago
  It takes many legal immigrants years to get status. Some of them wait a decade. I've known a few who had to wait this out. For these people having others jump the line is not a friendly gesture. Most people welcome immigrants, so long as they follow the rules others have to follow. Arguably our system is in need of reform or many kinds (it's our prerogative to seek immigrants of high value to the economy, for example, or those who fill a skills gap or labor gap -say farm workers)
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I'm fine with them because I'm a parent, and the idea of deporting the parents of my children's friends and classmates makes me nauseous and angry. I don't much care for any analysis past that. It was the same with the trans bathrooms. You might be surprised how many of us parents have kids with trans friends. The issues get real clear real fast when you see how they affect your kids friends. It's not at all hard to get a glimpse of how they'd affect your kids, if circumstances were different.
    - mc32 10y ago
      The trans thing is something I don't get. It's a non issue. Make all bathrooms unisex. Any one can use any bathroom. In the end women get more access to bathrooms than they do now. Stick a couple of urinals here and there. When people get into a country illegally, they know it's illegal. They know the consequences (for themselves and any dependents), but they hope they will not get caught and do it anyway, so it's hard to see it as if the state "did this" to them. I've seen this in China, Japan, etc. They know any day could be their last. Many had to have their friends sell their belongings for them because in those places you may have a week at most to get out.

jedrek 10y ago

In normal conversation, I'd be 100% sure this is sarcasm. On HN it's 50/50.