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In my experience, most of the people who home-school their kids are young-earth creationists or some other kind of nutters who don't want their kids exposed to

In my experience, most of the people who home-school their kids are young-earth creationists or some other kind of nutters who don't want their kids exposed to science as taught by mainstream schools.

space_fountain 10y ago
There are two groups in my experience. That's indeed one and probably the biggest group, but there are also parents who feel for one reason or another that school will not provide as good an environment as they can provide themselves.
Turing_Machine 10y ago
Your experience is atypical. http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oii/nonpublic/statistics.html http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oii/nonpublic/statisti... Under "Parents’ Most Important Reasons for Homeschooling Their Children", "A desire to provide religious instruction" comes in fourth, and "A desire to provide moral instruction" comes in fifth.
- baobrain 10y ago
  However, under "Parents' Reasons for Homeschooling Their Children (in percentages)", between 2011 and 2012 64% wanted to provide their children with "religious instruction," 77% "moral instruction." Also desire to provide religious instruction and concern about the environment in other schools (top reason) are not mutually exclusive. How do you know that the parents who were concerned didn't also list "A desire to provide religious instruction" as their second?
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    Yes, religious instruction is a common reason, but not the most important reason. Also, note that this would include any kind of religion, not just the kind of Flat Earth stuff that the OP was suggesting.
- vacri 10y ago
  That list is 'most important reason', not 'only reason'. The #1 answer could also fold in the religious/moral answers as well (a 'concern about school environment' is a particularly vague statement) If you look at the table immediately above it, it shows 'moral' at #2 and 'religious' at #4, with the vague 'environment' again at #1. 2/3rds to 3/4s of parents gave the religious/moral answer. This doesn't define them as young-earth creationist nutters, though - it just lends support back to the GP... That being said, while Australia (article location) does have some hard-core christian right folks, they're generally not young-earth creationists. Not a lot of biblical literalism here.
bpchaps 10y ago
Counterpoint - except for one, the homeschooling parents I've met either have a strong scientific background or work in a CS related field. It's mostly out of frustration with the education their kids are getting. FWIW, they're all mid/upper middle class.
- twblalock 10y ago
  > FWIW, they're all mid/upper middle class. I would expect that from home school families in general, because families in a lower socioeconomic stratum generally have both spouses working full-time jobs rather than staying at home, available to teach children.
jgord 10y ago
op here.. True, there is a fraction of Homeschoolers who are very pro a particular religion. There are others who Homeschool, in part, to avoid religion or discrimination in public schools. I have noticed quite a few Homeschool sites promote very pro-Christian materials, whereas we are very secular, pro science/evolution. There are quite a few reasons for Homeschooling, so its a diverse bunch - some are very pro-education, perhaps focusing on Science/Math or reading the classics. Some are "un-schoolers" who like to have almost no structure. Some are fundamentalists in the sense you mention, many aren't.
cloudwizard 10y ago
My problem is that schools standards are so low that my son was not learning anything there. He spent his days reading his way through the fiction section of the school library while the teachers focussed on the kids that were behind. If he was learning science, math or anything, I would have been happy.
- yellow_postit 10y ago
  Was this something that varied at other public schools in the area? Unfortunately for location based assignment some of the burden ends up on the parents to select an appropriate district for their children and preferred educational needs.
  - cloudwizard 10y ago
    No, were at one of the top rated elementary public schools in the Bay Area. We still could not get a math team out of a school of hundreds even when I offered to pay for it. My son had to compete at Nationals by himself.
- emerod 10y ago
  I had a similar experience in grammar school. I was the only qualified advanced student in English, so I spent class time sitting in the hallway going through the advanced reading exercises by myself.
burger_moon 10y ago
This has mostly been my experience as well with the over the top religious. As an adult I've only met people who fall into this category. The other group that I was familiar with when growing up were friends who essentially dropped out but we're able to use the homeschool thing to stay enrolled a little longer. I'd guess they don't make up a large portion of the homeschooled populous though.
toasterlovin 10y ago
You and I may not agree with their religious beliefs, but I agree with their instinct to avoid letting their children be indoctrinated with the memes of the larger culture. I wish more people considered which memes they allowed into their lives.
- amyjess 10y ago
  It's not their lives, it's their children's lives. Parents have no right to indoctrinate their children with falsehoods. If you want to deny science to yourselves, that's fine, but don't you dare drag your children into that: that's called child abuse. Parents also have a responsibility to integrate their children into society, and if they refuse to step up to that responsibility, then it's the government's job to step in and place the children under the care of those who will.
  - toasterlovin 10y ago
    Teaching your children that evolution doesn't explain human origins is not child abuse. It will probably have zero practical impact on how a child's life turns out. Once they're of age, they can live life as they please and believe what they want. I can agree that making sure children can read, write, and do some amount of math is fundamental to them being able to succeed as adults. But I'm skeptical of any attempts to make sure that children are "integrated" into society. I have a four year old daughter. There is no way you're going to convince me that putting her in an environment where girls are pressured into sending nude photos to boys is good for her. I'm sure there are things which can be done to mitigate these risks, but I like to play games where the odds are in my (and my daughter's) favor.
- lawless123 10y ago
  Is this about keeping them away from school or other children, tv, the internet, society etc? Maybe homeschooling is a filter bubble.
  - toasterlovin 10y ago
    I am of the opinion that developing a powerful system of meme defense is one of the most important tasks modern humans face. After all, nobody designed the meme-scape we all face today. It just evolved. So there's no guarantee that the memes we encounter will be beneficial. Quite to the contrary, actually: there are countless parasitic memes out there that take your time, attention, and money, without giving anything in return (TV, social media + fake news, celebrity worship, gambling, drugs, etc). So maybe homeschooling is a filter bubble. And maybe that's a good thing.
triangleman 10y ago
Can you please expand on what this "experience" is because that is quite the generalization.
MrZongle2 10y ago
Thanks for perpetuating stereotypes. Both my kids have been homeschooled. My oldest, 15, entered a public high school this year, is a solid A/B student, and is taking senior-level classes. My youngest, 13, is still being homeschooled and will likely go the same path in a couple of years. We don't go to church. We teach evolution. Both kids are passionate about science, especially biology and astronomy. Amongst other homeschooling families in our area, we are not atypical. Yes, there are outliers... but they generally don't socialize with other homeschooling family groups set up on Facebook or Meetup. We started homeschooling because our local school district failed our kids. Adults in the classrooms weren't teachers, they were classroom managers. Mentorship? Teaching? These things were replaced with tight schedules, teaching-to-the-test, and checkbox leadership. Homeschooling isn't for everyone, for both financial and teaching capability reasons. But don't lump everybody in the same pile as the loonies; that ignorance doesn't belong on HN.

space_fountain 10y ago

There are two groups in my experience. That's indeed one and probably the biggest group, but there are also parents who feel for one reason or another that school will not provide as good an environment as they can provide themselves.

Turing_Machine 10y ago

Your experience is atypical. http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oii/nonpublic/statistics.html http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oii/nonpublic/statisti... Under "Parents’ Most Important Reasons for Homeschooling Their Children", "A desire to provide religious instruction" comes in fourth, and "A desire to provide moral instruction" comes in fifth.

baobrain 10y ago
However, under "Parents' Reasons for Homeschooling Their Children (in percentages)", between 2011 and 2012 64% wanted to provide their children with "religious instruction," 77% "moral instruction." Also desire to provide religious instruction and concern about the environment in other schools (top reason) are not mutually exclusive. How do you know that the parents who were concerned didn't also list "A desire to provide religious instruction" as their second?
- Turing_Machine 10y ago
  Yes, religious instruction is a common reason, but not the most important reason. Also, note that this would include any kind of religion, not just the kind of Flat Earth stuff that the OP was suggesting.
vacri 10y ago
That list is 'most important reason', not 'only reason'. The #1 answer could also fold in the religious/moral answers as well (a 'concern about school environment' is a particularly vague statement) If you look at the table immediately above it, it shows 'moral' at #2 and 'religious' at #4, with the vague 'environment' again at #1. 2/3rds to 3/4s of parents gave the religious/moral answer. This doesn't define them as young-earth creationist nutters, though - it just lends support back to the GP... That being said, while Australia (article location) does have some hard-core christian right folks, they're generally not young-earth creationists. Not a lot of biblical literalism here.

bpchaps 10y ago

Counterpoint - except for one, the homeschooling parents I've met either have a strong scientific background or work in a CS related field. It's mostly out of frustration with the education their kids are getting. FWIW, they're all mid/upper middle class.

twblalock 10y ago
> FWIW, they're all mid/upper middle class. I would expect that from home school families in general, because families in a lower socioeconomic stratum generally have both spouses working full-time jobs rather than staying at home, available to teach children.

jgord 10y ago

op here.. True, there is a fraction of Homeschoolers who are very pro a particular religion. There are others who Homeschool, in part, to avoid religion or discrimination in public schools. I have noticed quite a few Homeschool sites promote very pro-Christian materials, whereas we are very secular, pro science/evolution. There are quite a few reasons for Homeschooling, so its a diverse bunch - some are very pro-education, perhaps focusing on Science/Math or reading the classics. Some are "un-schoolers" who like to have almost no structure. Some are fundamentalists in the sense you mention, many aren't.

cloudwizard 10y ago

My problem is that schools standards are so low that my son was not learning anything there. He spent his days reading his way through the fiction section of the school library while the teachers focussed on the kids that were behind. If he was learning science, math or anything, I would have been happy.

yellow_postit 10y ago
Was this something that varied at other public schools in the area? Unfortunately for location based assignment some of the burden ends up on the parents to select an appropriate district for their children and preferred educational needs.
- cloudwizard 10y ago
  No, were at one of the top rated elementary public schools in the Bay Area. We still could not get a math team out of a school of hundreds even when I offered to pay for it. My son had to compete at Nationals by himself.
emerod 10y ago
I had a similar experience in grammar school. I was the only qualified advanced student in English, so I spent class time sitting in the hallway going through the advanced reading exercises by myself.

burger_moon 10y ago

This has mostly been my experience as well with the over the top religious. As an adult I've only met people who fall into this category. The other group that I was familiar with when growing up were friends who essentially dropped out but we're able to use the homeschool thing to stay enrolled a little longer. I'd guess they don't make up a large portion of the homeschooled populous though.

toasterlovin 10y ago

You and I may not agree with their religious beliefs, but I agree with their instinct to avoid letting their children be indoctrinated with the memes of the larger culture. I wish more people considered which memes they allowed into their lives.

amyjess 10y ago
It's not their lives, it's their children's lives. Parents have no right to indoctrinate their children with falsehoods. If you want to deny science to yourselves, that's fine, but don't you dare drag your children into that: that's called child abuse. Parents also have a responsibility to integrate their children into society, and if they refuse to step up to that responsibility, then it's the government's job to step in and place the children under the care of those who will.
- toasterlovin 10y ago
  Teaching your children that evolution doesn't explain human origins is not child abuse. It will probably have zero practical impact on how a child's life turns out. Once they're of age, they can live life as they please and believe what they want. I can agree that making sure children can read, write, and do some amount of math is fundamental to them being able to succeed as adults. But I'm skeptical of any attempts to make sure that children are "integrated" into society. I have a four year old daughter. There is no way you're going to convince me that putting her in an environment where girls are pressured into sending nude photos to boys is good for her. I'm sure there are things which can be done to mitigate these risks, but I like to play games where the odds are in my (and my daughter's) favor.
lawless123 10y ago
Is this about keeping them away from school or other children, tv, the internet, society etc? Maybe homeschooling is a filter bubble.
- toasterlovin 10y ago
  I am of the opinion that developing a powerful system of meme defense is one of the most important tasks modern humans face. After all, nobody designed the meme-scape we all face today. It just evolved. So there's no guarantee that the memes we encounter will be beneficial. Quite to the contrary, actually: there are countless parasitic memes out there that take your time, attention, and money, without giving anything in return (TV, social media + fake news, celebrity worship, gambling, drugs, etc). So maybe homeschooling is a filter bubble. And maybe that's a good thing.

triangleman 10y ago

Can you please expand on what this "experience" is because that is quite the generalization.

MrZongle2 10y ago

Thanks for perpetuating stereotypes. Both my kids have been homeschooled. My oldest, 15, entered a public high school this year, is a solid A/B student, and is taking senior-level classes. My youngest, 13, is still being homeschooled and will likely go the same path in a couple of years. We don't go to church. We teach evolution. Both kids are passionate about science, especially biology and astronomy. Amongst other homeschooling families in our area, we are not atypical. Yes, there are outliers... but they generally don't socialize with other homeschooling family groups set up on Facebook or Meetup. We started homeschooling because our local school district failed our kids. Adults in the classrooms weren't teachers, they were classroom managers. Mentorship? Teaching? These things were replaced with tight schedules, teaching-to-the-test, and checkbox leadership. Homeschooling isn't for everyone, for both financial and teaching capability reasons. But don't lump everybody in the same pile as the loonies; that ignorance doesn't belong on HN.