4 ms·

Why do we accept this intrusion into our lives?

by erkose 10y ago

synicalx 10y ago
I accept it because I don't really care if Uber knows where I am for a couple of minutes after they drop me off. Not everyone's cup of tea, but if you don't like it there's nothing stopping you from uninstalling the app.
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  The issue then becomes Uber is doing it so all the other ride hailing apps start doing it. This is how the Overton Window shifts, and how our right to privacy is rapidly eroded.
  - AlexandrB 10y ago
    If you described 2016 to me in 2004, I'd call you a paranoid lunatic, yet here we are. I'm starting to realize that many of the "alarmist" voices [1] of that time were, in fact, optimistic. Thinking about what's considered "alarmist" today makes me fear for the future. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/you-are-a-suspect.html http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/you-are-a-suspect....
- bigiain 10y ago
  Any you trust them (as a company) that they'll "only track you for 5 minutes after using the app", and you trust each of their staff members will have controlled/secured/audited access to only the 5 minutes location data after a trip, and you trust them to never deploy a production bug in their tracking code, and you trust every law enforcement or business partner request for that data including gag-order-backed-NSLs. And that's OK - if you're good with that. Now go and ask some women you know whether they have all that trust? Or minorities. Or activists. If you were a Muslim or Mexican in the US right now - do you suppose you'd be happy leaving an Uber app with "Always" location tracking permission on your phone past Jan 20th? If you had a close friend legally and peacefully protesting the pipeline in North Dakota right now and you knew they used Uber - would you be checking that they know this? I reject the position that because _you_ don't really care, that it's OK to "accept" this. Even though _you_ don't care, tell Uber you do not accept this because of what it means for your sister or friends or coworkers or neighbours or your allegedly "freedom loving" society...
  - bastawhiz 10y ago
    It's worth noting that if Uber accidentally started collecting location data from every rider's phone in perpetuity while they're not on-trip, it would be a very big problem for Uber. That's an absolutely ridiculous amount of data and would easily overwhelm the service. You wouldn't have to worry about NSLs because the data centers would be a fiery mess of steel and silicon. Even if they weren't, the data is overwhelmingly not useful for anyone at Uber (how many hours of "sleeping at home" worth of data points could ever be used?), and it would be destroyed because it's a giant waste of resources. Uber is big, but not that big. You're already volunteering your location for the service (by being in a car tracked by Uber), this simply adds a small margin of data at the end of the trip.
    - jitix 10y ago
      Efficiently storing and analyzing vast amounts of data isn't very difficult these days - esp if the data is something that they can monetize.
  - andrewpi 10y ago
    >And that's OK - if you're good with that. Now go and ask some women you know whether they have all that trust? Or minorities. Or activists. If you were a Muslim or Mexican in the US right now - do you suppose you'd be happy leaving an Uber app with "Always" location tracking permission on your phone past Jan 20th? The NSA already has the ability to track cellphones, regardless of what Uber does with their app.
  - joesb 10y ago
    Unless you are using open source phone with your own built chip, Apple and Google may be tracking you without you knowing right now. How do you know your neighbor are not actually government agency spying on you?
  - uiuiuop 10y ago
    What I find funny are the people that accept it when it's a Western company doing it, but then freak out with it's a Chinese company doing it (especially when they don't even live in China).
- uabstraction 10y ago
  This mindset is exactly what is destroying democracy around the world.
  - AWildDHHAppears 10y ago
    Oh come now.
  - synicalx 10y ago
    I'm dumb, you're going to have to be a bit more explicit here and tell me how Uber knowing my rough location for a few minutes leads to election fraud, or whatever else it is you seem to think is undermining democracy here.

Why do we accept this intrusion into our lives?

by erkose 10y ago

Why do we accept this intrusion into our lives?

I accept it because I don't really care if Uber knows where I am for a couple of minutes after they drop me off. Not everyone's cup of tea, but if you don't like it there's nothing stopping you from uninstalling the app.

TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
The issue then becomes Uber is doing it so all the other ride hailing apps start doing it. This is how the Overton Window shifts, and how our right to privacy is rapidly eroded.
- AlexandrB 10y ago
  If you described 2016 to me in 2004, I'd call you a paranoid lunatic, yet here we are. I'm starting to realize that many of the "alarmist" voices [1] of that time were, in fact, optimistic. Thinking about what's considered "alarmist" today makes me fear for the future. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/you-are-a-suspect.html http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/14/opinion/you-are-a-suspect....
bigiain 10y ago
Any you trust them (as a company) that they'll "only track you for 5 minutes after using the app", and you trust each of their staff members will have controlled/secured/audited access to only the 5 minutes location data after a trip, and you trust them to never deploy a production bug in their tracking code, and you trust every law enforcement or business partner request for that data including gag-order-backed-NSLs. And that's OK - if you're good with that. Now go and ask some women you know whether they have all that trust? Or minorities. Or activists. If you were a Muslim or Mexican in the US right now - do you suppose you'd be happy leaving an Uber app with "Always" location tracking permission on your phone past Jan 20th? If you had a close friend legally and peacefully protesting the pipeline in North Dakota right now and you knew they used Uber - would you be checking that they know this? I reject the position that because _you_ don't really care, that it's OK to "accept" this. Even though _you_ don't care, tell Uber you do not accept this because of what it means for your sister or friends or coworkers or neighbours or your allegedly "freedom loving" society...
- bastawhiz 10y ago
  It's worth noting that if Uber accidentally started collecting location data from every rider's phone in perpetuity while they're not on-trip, it would be a very big problem for Uber. That's an absolutely ridiculous amount of data and would easily overwhelm the service. You wouldn't have to worry about NSLs because the data centers would be a fiery mess of steel and silicon. Even if they weren't, the data is overwhelmingly not useful for anyone at Uber (how many hours of "sleeping at home" worth of data points could ever be used?), and it would be destroyed because it's a giant waste of resources. Uber is big, but not that big. You're already volunteering your location for the service (by being in a car tracked by Uber), this simply adds a small margin of data at the end of the trip.
  - jitix 10y ago
    Efficiently storing and analyzing vast amounts of data isn't very difficult these days - esp if the data is something that they can monetize.
- andrewpi 10y ago
  >And that's OK - if you're good with that. Now go and ask some women you know whether they have all that trust? Or minorities. Or activists. If you were a Muslim or Mexican in the US right now - do you suppose you'd be happy leaving an Uber app with "Always" location tracking permission on your phone past Jan 20th? The NSA already has the ability to track cellphones, regardless of what Uber does with their app.
- joesb 10y ago
  Unless you are using open source phone with your own built chip, Apple and Google may be tracking you without you knowing right now. How do you know your neighbor are not actually government agency spying on you?
- uiuiuop 10y ago
  What I find funny are the people that accept it when it's a Western company doing it, but then freak out with it's a Chinese company doing it (especially when they don't even live in China).
uabstraction 10y ago
This mindset is exactly what is destroying democracy around the world.
- AWildDHHAppears 10y ago
  Oh come now.
- synicalx 10y ago
  I'm dumb, you're going to have to be a bit more explicit here and tell me how Uber knowing my rough location for a few minutes leads to election fraud, or whatever else it is you seem to think is undermining democracy here.