6 ms·

Wow, those income numebers are insane. Was that a sarcastic infographic or was it serious one?

by andruby 10y ago

SilasX 10y ago
Can't find a direct non-paywall link, but here's the discussion with links: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/wall-street-journal-middle-class_n_2488893.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/wall-street-journal... (A bit suspicious now; none of them have direct links to the article.)
phd514 10y ago
It was from this article on the upper middle class: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/06/21/not-just-the-1-the-upper-middle-class-is-larger-and-richer-than-ever/ http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/06/21/not-just-the-1-the.... The HuffPo article conveniently omits "upper".
- nerfhammer 10y ago
  I wouldn't call that upper "middle" class, I would just call that upper class...
  - Swizec 10y ago
    Upper class is when you no longer have a salary, just investments. Upper middle is when you have a high salary and some investments, but your main source of income is still leveraging time and skill for money.
    - SilasX 10y ago
      So ... the retired couple (top right) is upper class then.
      - Swizec 10y ago
        That's a good question. I don't know. I guess it depends on what kind of retired you are. If you're living off of $1000 of dividends per month, or a $600 pension, then you're probably not upper class. At $4000/month like the couple in the picture ... borderline? Maybe once you retire you just stay the class you were before you retired?
        clock_tower 10y ago
        > Maybe once you retire you just stay the class you were before you retired? That's how I've always heard it, for what it's worth. The middle class, including the upper middle class, earns salaries; the upper class pays them.
    - nerfhammer 10y ago
      So a CEO with a seven figure salary is still upper middle class? I think not.
      - Swizec 10y ago
        If said salary is their main/only source of income, why not? Afaik as long as you need a salary to maintain your lifestyle, you're middle class. Grey areas abound of course. Whichever definitionwe write down, someone can find an example that doesn't feel right. Like, what if your 7 figure CEO is 8 figures in debt and all their assets are leveraged to the brim and if they lose their job it's all getting foreclosed by the bank and they're homeless in a month? What if a 5-figure small business director/owner lives a comfy life well within their means and has 10 years of fuck you money? Life's weird.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - leggomylibro 10y ago
    I don't think you can consider someone "upper class" if they aren't at the point where they can comfortably work for their own enjoyment without needing to draw a wage from someone else.
- arcticfox 10y ago
  Well, that convenient omission sure changes the context enormously. People can have different opinions on the definition of "upper" but that is certainly worlds away from the point HuffPo was trying to make. Irresponsible from HuffPo, but, what do I expect from people trying to get clicks?
coolstorydude89 10y ago
The original article was talking about specifically how this tax increase would affect higher earner families. It was not the intent of the story to describe these as typical of the general population.
- SilasX 10y ago
  So the sad, sympathy-inducing facial expressions was just ... what? Something the artist independently decided to do?
  - coolstorydude89 10y ago
    Not sure I understand what you are trying to imply? I think the artists intent was to show distress at having to pay large fines. I think that regardless of income people can(and usually do) feel distressed at having to pay thousands of dollars in fines. I personally wince at 20 dollar parking tickets, and probably always will despite my level of income.
    - vkou 10y ago
      Do you also wince at paying money for your groceries?
      - coolstorydude89 10y ago
        If I feel like what I am obtaining from an exchange of money for some thing, is less valuable to me than the amount of my lifetime/mental and physical energies I spent to acquire that money originally, I am probably not going to feel good about the exchange. This seems like common sense to me? It makes me feel even worse on general principle when the exchange is coercive, using my example, I parked in a place that was designated by "random person with authority" at "random point in time" as not to be parked in, so if I don't pay my locally sanctioned protection racket I will be penalized. I will never see this as a positive thing. EDIT: Also, it should be said that with things like taxes there is a distinct psychological effect/cognitive bias where people see less value in things where the effect or value of the transaction cannot be easily seen.

Wow, those income numebers are insane. Was that a sarcastic infographic or was it serious one?

by andruby 10y ago

Wow, those income numebers are insane. Was that a sarcastic infographic or was it serious one?

Can't find a direct non-paywall link, but here's the discussion with links: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/wall-street-journal-middle-class_n_2488893.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/wall-street-journal... (A bit suspicious now; none of them have direct links to the article.)

phd514 10y ago

It was from this article on the upper middle class: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/06/21/not-just-the-1-the-upper-middle-class-is-larger-and-richer-than-ever/ http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/06/21/not-just-the-1-the.... The HuffPo article conveniently omits "upper".

nerfhammer 10y ago
I wouldn't call that upper "middle" class, I would just call that upper class...
- Swizec 10y ago
  Upper class is when you no longer have a salary, just investments. Upper middle is when you have a high salary and some investments, but your main source of income is still leveraging time and skill for money.
  - SilasX 10y ago
    So ... the retired couple (top right) is upper class then.
    - Swizec 10y ago
      That's a good question. I don't know. I guess it depends on what kind of retired you are. If you're living off of $1000 of dividends per month, or a $600 pension, then you're probably not upper class. At $4000/month like the couple in the picture ... borderline? Maybe once you retire you just stay the class you were before you retired?
      - clock_tower 10y ago
        > Maybe once you retire you just stay the class you were before you retired? That's how I've always heard it, for what it's worth. The middle class, including the upper middle class, earns salaries; the upper class pays them.
  - nerfhammer 10y ago
    So a CEO with a seven figure salary is still upper middle class? I think not.
    - Swizec 10y ago
      If said salary is their main/only source of income, why not? Afaik as long as you need a salary to maintain your lifestyle, you're middle class. Grey areas abound of course. Whichever definitionwe write down, someone can find an example that doesn't feel right. Like, what if your 7 figure CEO is 8 figures in debt and all their assets are leveraged to the brim and if they lose their job it's all getting foreclosed by the bank and they're homeless in a month? What if a 5-figure small business director/owner lives a comfy life well within their means and has 10 years of fuck you money? Life's weird.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- leggomylibro 10y ago
  I don't think you can consider someone "upper class" if they aren't at the point where they can comfortably work for their own enjoyment without needing to draw a wage from someone else.
arcticfox 10y ago
Well, that convenient omission sure changes the context enormously. People can have different opinions on the definition of "upper" but that is certainly worlds away from the point HuffPo was trying to make. Irresponsible from HuffPo, but, what do I expect from people trying to get clicks?

coolstorydude89 10y ago

The original article was talking about specifically how this tax increase would affect higher earner families. It was not the intent of the story to describe these as typical of the general population.

SilasX 10y ago
So the sad, sympathy-inducing facial expressions was just ... what? Something the artist independently decided to do?
- coolstorydude89 10y ago
  Not sure I understand what you are trying to imply? I think the artists intent was to show distress at having to pay large fines. I think that regardless of income people can(and usually do) feel distressed at having to pay thousands of dollars in fines. I personally wince at 20 dollar parking tickets, and probably always will despite my level of income.
  - vkou 10y ago
    Do you also wince at paying money for your groceries?
    - coolstorydude89 10y ago
      If I feel like what I am obtaining from an exchange of money for some thing, is less valuable to me than the amount of my lifetime/mental and physical energies I spent to acquire that money originally, I am probably not going to feel good about the exchange. This seems like common sense to me? It makes me feel even worse on general principle when the exchange is coercive, using my example, I parked in a place that was designated by "random person with authority" at "random point in time" as not to be parked in, so if I don't pay my locally sanctioned protection racket I will be penalized. I will never see this as a positive thing. EDIT: Also, it should be said that with things like taxes there is a distinct psychological effect/cognitive bias where people see less value in things where the effect or value of the transaction cannot be easily seen.