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Whoa whoa, why do we have to get paid less? Here in lies (one of) the problems with our industry. We should work 40 hours a week and be done with it. Seriously.

Whoa whoa, why do we have to get paid less? Here in lies (one of) the problems with our industry. We should work 40 hours a week and be done with it. Seriously. In the United States we are (more often than not) paid as exempt employees. This has some interesting legal ramifications in that according to the Fair Labor Standards Act exempt workers professional knowledge workers essentially have no rights at all (under that Act. Other laws and standards at other levels may affect this in other jurisdictions). Why is that? Well simple. We are Professional Knowledge Workers. In every place I have ever lived I have been on the correct side of the supply and demand curve. There has been a low supply and a very high demand for my particular type of professional knowledge work. The theory goes that if you are a professional knowledge worker you have the ability to move from one job to another with more ease that other classes of workers. Thus, we as professional knowledge workers don't need the level of labor protection that other classes of workers need. Not only that but my particular brand of professional knowledge work sure makes organizations a lot of money; far more than I take back in the form of pay. So, why should I work a substantial amount of overtime in order to make them even more money faster and without any additional compensation? Good question, I don't. If my employers would like to try to guilt me into doing more, I don't let them. If my employer wants to threaten me, I threaten back. If I have a team (which I often have), I hold them to the same standard as me. It can be painful at first. Companies can get really touchy. But after they see the benefits they praise this way of working (Better, less buggy, more stable code. Higher engineer retention rates. More successful feature releases. To name a few benefits). Have I had to put my money where my mouth is on this? Absolutely yes. Interestingly, I have never been fired or reprimanded for not working overtime. I have however walked out because I have gotten tired of being guilted, threatened, or harassed about it. It hasn't happen often, but it has happened. Work 40 honest hours a week. Go home. Enjoy life. Let your brain relax. Stop being treated like a slave to the organization who pays you and start working like a highly sought after individual.

jotato 10y ago
I agree. after working long hours to "save the day" for a startup I was at, my boss called me into his office to tell me to stop. If you give more, they will keep asking for more. Since that conversation with him over 5 years ago, I work 40 hours a week with overtime when it makes sense. There is no need to push yourself. The company won't go under if you go home at 5.
kzisme 10y ago
I only mentioned being paid less because most companies (I assume) want their workers sitting for 8 hours - working or not. At my current place I feel that (and I've been told) as long as you work you're able to work where/when/how ever you want. I ~do~ feel bad if I leave the office earlier than 5pm most days. Realistically myself and many others don't work the full 8 hours there's breaks of talking, bathroom, stretching, etc. I've never been asked to work overtime, but if I have to get something done (hasn't happened yet) I'll work on it from my couch at home if it's not a huge deal. I would be fine with working from the office a few days a week and working from home the other days of the week for only 6 hours a day, or maybe even less depending how I feel for the day. When I mention this to people outside of our industry they scoff and essentially say "well you get paid to work so work". While I understand I need to work to make a living it's inefficient most of the time. I'm not trying to be lazy it just hardly works out in anyone's best interest. I doubt I could bring this up to my current employer or future employer, and they would be OK with be working less hours per day for the same amount of pay.
squozzer 10y ago
Here, here. There are essentially two forces at play that drive the current default work culture -- 1) Fetishization of work itself -- which I happily stole from an article posted on HN some time ago. 2) Arbitrary deadlines -- these usually come from the business side ("suits") in collusion with one's superiors. Notice I said arbitrary. If the competition has rolled out a new feature that seems to have a payoff, then a crash program - pardon the pun - might have justification. But a lot of times deadlines are set by a manager's vacation calendar or horoscope, who knows?

jotato 10y ago

I agree. after working long hours to "save the day" for a startup I was at, my boss called me into his office to tell me to stop. If you give more, they will keep asking for more. Since that conversation with him over 5 years ago, I work 40 hours a week with overtime when it makes sense. There is no need to push yourself. The company won't go under if you go home at 5.

kzisme 10y ago

I only mentioned being paid less because most companies (I assume) want their workers sitting for 8 hours - working or not. At my current place I feel that (and I've been told) as long as you work you're able to work where/when/how ever you want. I ~do~ feel bad if I leave the office earlier than 5pm most days. Realistically myself and many others don't work the full 8 hours there's breaks of talking, bathroom, stretching, etc. I've never been asked to work overtime, but if I have to get something done (hasn't happened yet) I'll work on it from my couch at home if it's not a huge deal. I would be fine with working from the office a few days a week and working from home the other days of the week for only 6 hours a day, or maybe even less depending how I feel for the day. When I mention this to people outside of our industry they scoff and essentially say "well you get paid to work so work". While I understand I need to work to make a living it's inefficient most of the time. I'm not trying to be lazy it just hardly works out in anyone's best interest. I doubt I could bring this up to my current employer or future employer, and they would be OK with be working less hours per day for the same amount of pay.

squozzer 10y ago

Here, here. There are essentially two forces at play that drive the current default work culture -- 1) Fetishization of work itself -- which I happily stole from an article posted on HN some time ago. 2) Arbitrary deadlines -- these usually come from the business side ("suits") in collusion with one's superiors. Notice I said arbitrary. If the competition has rolled out a new feature that seems to have a payoff, then a crash program - pardon the pun - might have justification. But a lot of times deadlines are set by a manager's vacation calendar or horoscope, who knows?