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One of the more interesting announcements. ECS has seemed like a non starter for any "serious" project for a while, but as someone who has been implementing mes

One of the more interesting announcements. ECS has seemed like a non starter for any "serious" project for a while, but as someone who has been implementing mesos for the last few months, its pretty interesting that they would prioritize pluggable schedulers rather than getting better feature parity with kubernetes on google cloud. Pluggable schedulers is one of the best features that is missing from kubernetes, swarm, and nomad. All the scheduling/lifecycle algorithms are pretty naive when it comes to any stateful (DBs, kafka) or batch (hadoop, spark) services. But even for typical webapps, pluggable schedulers give you a nice place to hook into a lot of the lifecycle that makes things like pre-warming or cleanly killing sockets at scale down a lot simpler. So this is pretty cool... and makes ECS more attractive... but I wish it was just mesos which is built around the idea of providing a framework for building schedulers and would be way more portable.

SEJeff 10y ago
I think you might be a bit misinformed and referring to a much older version of kubernetes. I say this as someone who has used (and deployed) Mesos for the past few years and is currently working on Kubernetes. Kubernetes has pluggable schedulers[1], but unlike Mesos, which requires a scheduler as part of a framework, there is a default Kubernetes scheduler[2] A kubernetes scheduler is akin to a mesos framework sans the executor and how you interact with them. There is a single way to interact with schedulers in k8s (via the apiserver) and there is a default "executor" which is the containerizer (docker/rkt/oci-d/etc). For proof of this, see the etcd[3] operator or prometheus[4] operators. Both etcd and prometheus are stateful services. [1] http://kubernetes.io/docs/admin/multiple-schedulers/ [2] http://kubernetes.io/docs/admin/kube-scheduler/ [3] https://coreos.com/blog/introducing-the-etcd-operator.html [4] https://coreos.com/blog/the-prometheus-operator.html
- addisonj 10y ago
  I haven't been following kubernetes as closely for the last 6 months, cool to see that its also being supported... A lot of our decision to go with mesos was that our first use case is running big data tools (spark, etc) which have a good bit of integration with mesos. Will be interesting to see the level of adoption of projects implementing operators
dastbe 10y ago
What other features are you missing from ECS?
- Rapzid 10y ago
  Not the OP, but I'm missing in no particular order(and some of these may be on offer now): * Secret storage * Pet sets(coming along in k8s) * Leader election * Persistent volumes It looks like Blox can address some of this stuff, but kubernetes is providing this stuff OOTB.. It's also locked to vendor-specific service offerings. This isn't to say Kubernetes doesn't have room for improvement; its AWS integrations could use some work(Application Load Balancer support, etc).
  - justinsb 10y ago
    Hi - I do a lot of work on Kubernetes on AWS. We definitely have room for improvement - and not just in the glib "there's always room for improvement" way. But: We don't support ALB yet because we haven't actually found a compelling use-case for it. Ingress on Kubernetes seems to do everything ALB can, but without the limitations. At least that's what we've thought so far, so if you have a use case do open an issue explaining it, and we can look at adding it :-)
    - buckhx 10y ago
      GRPC requires http2 which is only supported by ALB and not ELB. Our services are mostly GRPC so lack of ALB means we can't use k8s out of ths box on AWS if that adds any fuel to the fire.
      - jhspaybar 10y ago
        As a heavy grpc user, I don't think ALB supports it due to a lack of trailer support. You're probably going to just use a TCP load balancer if you want grpc services behind a load balancer.
      - justinsb 10y ago
        I also want GRPC for my own stuff; ELB will work fine (in TCP mode), but I also want it to work through ingress. My understanding is HTTP2/GRPC support is coming to ingress - that aledbf has already implemented it, and it will be coming to the "official" repo soon; ingress is becoming a top-level project and there's some reshuffling that has to happen, but then aledbf has some great stuff in the pipeline.
davidopp__ 10y ago
Kubernetes supports pluggable schedulers: http://kubernetes.io/docs/admin/multiple-schedulers/ http://kubernetes.io/docs/admin/multiple-schedulers/ It also supports pluggable "controllers," which manage the lifecycle of containers. (So a Kubernetes scheduler + controller is roughly equivalent to a Mesos framework scheduler; see this doc for more details: https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/contributors/devel/mesos-style.md https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/contribu... ) Another recent development in this area is CoreOS operators, which leverages pluggable controllers + Third Party Resources and was previously discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12868594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12868594 [Disclosure: I work on Kubernetes at Google.]
- addisonj 10y ago
  I knew that was on the roadmap, but didn't know that it was supported yet. Very cool :)

SEJeff 10y ago

I think you might be a bit misinformed and referring to a much older version of kubernetes. I say this as someone who has used (and deployed) Mesos for the past few years and is currently working on Kubernetes. Kubernetes has pluggable schedulers[1], but unlike Mesos, which requires a scheduler as part of a framework, there is a default Kubernetes scheduler[2] A kubernetes scheduler is akin to a mesos framework sans the executor and how you interact with them. There is a single way to interact with schedulers in k8s (via the apiserver) and there is a default "executor" which is the containerizer (docker/rkt/oci-d/etc). For proof of this, see the etcd[3] operator or prometheus[4] operators. Both etcd and prometheus are stateful services. [1] http://kubernetes.io/docs/admin/multiple-schedulers/ [2] http://kubernetes.io/docs/admin/kube-scheduler/ [3] https://coreos.com/blog/introducing-the-etcd-operator.html [4] https://coreos.com/blog/the-prometheus-operator.html

addisonj 10y ago
I haven't been following kubernetes as closely for the last 6 months, cool to see that its also being supported... A lot of our decision to go with mesos was that our first use case is running big data tools (spark, etc) which have a good bit of integration with mesos. Will be interesting to see the level of adoption of projects implementing operators

dastbe 10y ago

What other features are you missing from ECS?

Rapzid 10y ago
Not the OP, but I'm missing in no particular order(and some of these may be on offer now): * Secret storage * Pet sets(coming along in k8s) * Leader election * Persistent volumes It looks like Blox can address some of this stuff, but kubernetes is providing this stuff OOTB.. It's also locked to vendor-specific service offerings. This isn't to say Kubernetes doesn't have room for improvement; its AWS integrations could use some work(Application Load Balancer support, etc).
- justinsb 10y ago
  Hi - I do a lot of work on Kubernetes on AWS. We definitely have room for improvement - and not just in the glib "there's always room for improvement" way. But: We don't support ALB yet because we haven't actually found a compelling use-case for it. Ingress on Kubernetes seems to do everything ALB can, but without the limitations. At least that's what we've thought so far, so if you have a use case do open an issue explaining it, and we can look at adding it :-)
  - buckhx 10y ago
    GRPC requires http2 which is only supported by ALB and not ELB. Our services are mostly GRPC so lack of ALB means we can't use k8s out of ths box on AWS if that adds any fuel to the fire.
    - jhspaybar 10y ago
      As a heavy grpc user, I don't think ALB supports it due to a lack of trailer support. You're probably going to just use a TCP load balancer if you want grpc services behind a load balancer.
    - justinsb 10y ago
      I also want GRPC for my own stuff; ELB will work fine (in TCP mode), but I also want it to work through ingress. My understanding is HTTP2/GRPC support is coming to ingress - that aledbf has already implemented it, and it will be coming to the "official" repo soon; ingress is becoming a top-level project and there's some reshuffling that has to happen, but then aledbf has some great stuff in the pipeline.

davidopp__ 10y ago

Kubernetes supports pluggable schedulers: http://kubernetes.io/docs/admin/multiple-schedulers/ http://kubernetes.io/docs/admin/multiple-schedulers/ It also supports pluggable "controllers," which manage the lifecycle of containers. (So a Kubernetes scheduler + controller is roughly equivalent to a Mesos framework scheduler; see this doc for more details: https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/contributors/devel/mesos-style.md https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/contribu... ) Another recent development in this area is CoreOS operators, which leverages pluggable controllers + Third Party Resources and was previously discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12868594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12868594 [Disclosure: I work on Kubernetes at Google.]

addisonj 10y ago
I knew that was on the roadmap, but didn't know that it was supported yet. Very cool :)