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One monkey says to a group of other monkeys: "We all need to take one of the 5 bananas we individually have to feed the doctor monkey, the asphalt monkey and th
by 3poundkilograms 10y ago
One monkey says to a group of other monkeys: "We all need to take one of the 5 bananas we individually have to feed the doctor monkey, the asphalt monkey and the teacher monkey, from whom we receive services."
One monkey from the group, which just came back in his car from the doctor monkey with his daughter that goes to the local monkey school: "I refuse to give up my bananas!".
Remember context. Full context is important.
- thlst 10y agoThat sounds like forcing a service (that you might not want) down your throat, and accusing you of stealing if you refuse to pay. It would be surprisingly better to let monkeys pay for what they want to use, instead of making every monkey pay for what they won't ever use.
- j-pb 10y agoEverybody is a neoliberal until they have to pay for their own hospital bill.
- zzzzzzzzzman 10y agoI am an American and I pay for all of my medical care privately, without insurance :)
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- kalleboo 10y agoSo if tomorrow you got a rare form of cancer that cost millions of dollars to treat, you plan to be euthanized?
- thlst 10y agoYou can't justify theft like that.
- jackmaney 10y agoYou must be fortunate not to have any preexisting conditions or to not need any medical procedures that, without insurance, can easily cost tens of thousands of dollars.
- fucking_tragedy 10y agoBut personal responsibility! You are responsible for the things you aren't actually responsible for, like cancer or genetic diseases.
- zzzzzzzzzman 10y agoI appreciate your response :) The real question is why are medical procedures so artificially expensive. The only thing I would really need medical insurance for is a rare emergency procedure like an appendectomy. Information online says an appendectomy can cost anywhere from $1,500 to $150,000. Why is there such a deviation? This is how insurance companies make their money. When we consider that medical insurance in the USA is several hundred dollars per month, $1,500 out of pocket seems completely reasonable.
- jackmaney 10y agoAnd exactly how many people do you think have $1,500 laying around? (Hint: not many)
- koolba 10y ago> And exactly how many people do you think have $1,500 laying around? (Hint: not many) If you're paying $300/mo and are reasonably healthy (i.e. not going to the doctor regularly) then you'd save that up in now time. The real fix to all of this is to remove day-to-day care from health insurance and let it be just "insurance" (i.e. not healthcare). They have a bit of that with catastrophic plans but there are limitations on who can sign up for them (which I personally think is really stupid).
- jackmaney 10y ago
- Ntrails 10y agoAh, yes, the old "I have totally done this so far in my life and thus it is a model for all peoples" chestnut. I have this vague memory of someone who was litigating about obamacare being unconstitutional for forcing people to have insurance and then defaulting on their sudden unexpected large hospital bill... Realistically you've been lucky, and that's fine. You're against risk pooling because you feel that's not something you need. Self evidently the pooling is to cover the less fortunate. the "there but for the grace of god go I" situation. Maybe you think they're all scroungers and wastrels? Or that they don't deserve access to medical care just by virtue of existing and being ill. It's a cultural thing tbh, but bemusing to me.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- deadbunny 10y agoMan, I don't often wish life threatening or chronic diseases which cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to treat on anyone. But I would pay to see the moment your smug tone changes to one of despair.
- sgift 10y ago> That sounds like forcing a service (that you might not want) down your throat, and accusing you of stealing if you refuse to pay. You can leave if you do not like it. Or you can vote for a different system. "hey, I want to sleep in this room, but they say they don't let me until I pay, THEY FORCE ME TO PAY!!!"
- thlst 10y agoThat's totally different. Government vs Business. First one forces you to pay for things you don't asked for in the first place. The latter is optional, as no one has the right to force you buy their stuff/services.
- zzzzzzzzzman 10y agoI appreciate your response and POV :) Why can we not assume that the doctor monkey is operating a private medical practice, his daughter is sent to a private monkey school, and they drove together in a privately produced car on privately maintained roads? In the USA, I pay income taxes, and I still have to pay for all of these things above (fees, fines, tolls, surcharges, sales tax...)
- rootusrootus 10y agoWe can assume the doctor monkey is paying for his kid's school, but it's possible that doctor monkey also benefits indirectly from the other monkeys' kids education as well. All the roads you drive on are toll roads? Here in Oregon none are, and when I was back East only some highways were toll roads. Surface streets are nearly all paid for through taxes AFAIK. I don't get the severe anti-tax stance some folks have. Yes I want my taxes spent efficiently, but I absolutely recognize that I gain benefits from paying them. Even when some of those taxes go to poor people. Without a peaceful society nobody will care that much about computers and the 'net ;). I admit I'm a bit biased, because I get Welfare myself. That is, the gov't gives me a fair amount of money to offset the interest I pay to the bank for my mortgage. My effective income tax rate is less than 10% so I probably get quite a lot more welfare than any really poor family does. What a world we live in.
- zzzzzzzzzman 10y agoThank you for your well-formulated points and civil response :) Re: roads, I agree that not all roads are toll roads. The good news is that roads are relatively inexpensive to build and maintain (for example, the federal transportation budget is only 2.3% of total yearly spending, 28 billion dollars). So, those who want to use roads, should be charged a fair price, and road companies should compete to lower costs where possible. The argument that "if we don't pay taxes (which are ever increasing and are going towards services that are decreasing in quality), then everyone will go nuts and modern society will collapse!!!" is actually extortion and a clever diversion. We all want cheaper, more effective services. We all want the poorest members of society to not be kicked when they are already down. The issue is that world governments are run by an elite few people who funnel our taxes to their bank accounts through scams and poorly rendered services. And when we figured out this scam and went public with the info, we were yelled at to keep paying our taxes ;)
- krisroadruck 10y agoOne monkey says to a group of other monkeys: "We all need to take one of the 5 bananas we individually have to pay for a 1.2 trillion banana fighter jet that doesnt work, and also to give bananas to people who aren't contributing any bananas at all" One monkey from the group, who makes 4 of the 5 bananas, and doesn't want a 1.2 trillion banana fighter jet notices that all the people who are clamoring to take bananas aren't putting in any of the bananas themselves but are instead on the receiving end of the banana transfer, gets annoyed that they are basically having a meeting to take his bananas and give them to themselves. He gets upset by this" Remember context. Full Context is important.
- zzzzzzzzzman 10y agoNow now now Mr. Monkey, these fighter jets are for your protection! And the blanket banana surveillance we conduct on you and your community is also important so that we can collect a banana salary while protecting you from people that want to hurt you :)
- kalleboo 10y agoNaw that monkey runs the fighter jet manufacturing company, he's all for it and busy paying the lobbying monkeys to make sure the racket continues
- wavefunction 10y agoThe 4 of 5 Banana Monkey not only owns the Fighter Jet Company but also the Banana Plantation. Remember context. Full Context is important.
- ovao 10y agoAnd that monkey may actually be using the bananas it withholds from one group to do social good in a much more efficient manner for another group. Not to condone tax evasion or fraud — I condemn illegal tax evasion — but there are many interesting dimensions to this.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- mr_blobs 10y agoReality is more like: 2 out of 10 monkeys spend all their waking hours sacrificing and working so their children can have more than 1 banana and then give 15 out of the 20 bananas they earn to the group. The majority of monkeys in the group gives 0 bananas, but continue to say that the ones that do give the most aren't paying their fair share (and need to give even more). They then have many discussions on how they can force the other monkeys to give the rest of the group even more bananas, rather than putting energy into earning their own.
- mr_blobs 10y agoI can't see my original reply, so I think something is wrong with HN. Reality is more like: 2 out of 10 monkeys spend all their waking hours sacrificing and working so their children can have more than 1 banana and then give 15 out of the 20 bananas they earn to the group. The majority of monkeys in the group gives 0 bananas, but continue to say that the ones that do give the most aren't paying their fair share (and need to give even more). They then have many discussions on how they can force the other monkeys to give the rest of the group even more bananas, rather than putting energy into earning their own.